Thanks to Rattler's persuasive nudge, I found the music and video's at UTube quite the memory joggers. Then Koen nudged me to make this thread. It is with much gratitude that I dedicate this first installment to Rattler & Koen, for their excellent ideas.

It was Koen's idea to do an interview as well. So we have combined the two, since it has proven to be far more efficient, as the videos themselves sometimes prompt questions (once again Rattler was ahead of the curve).

Eric Burdon - The Animals - We Gotta Get Out Of This Place (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxNEiZhpinY#)

Ah! What music!

If you care to answer: What do you feel/think -today-

- when you see this vid? What memories does it induce?

- About "Apocalypse Now"?

- About the Phantoms coming in and bringing relief (?) ?

- About the "gooks"?

- And, about the US (or any other if you care to comment) mil culture?

Just asking, and with all due respect, do not feel obliged to answer publicly.

Rattler

Rattler:


Various parts of the vids, elicit different memories. As one would expect, seeing wounded and dead GIs is an unpleasant experience, for it is easy to see in my minds eye, my buddies in their agony once again. Watching the ordinance go off, no longer elicits the 'Git some!' reactions it did back then, but then again, I am no longer filled with the hate and anger as I was. Now I am more saddened by the unnecessary loss of life that I know is occurring.



While I can appreciate the artistic nature of the film, it bears little resemblance or relevancy to my Vietnam experience. Better he should have kept to the original setting in my eyes, as it seemed a gratuitous exploitation of us GIs. The only scene of any empathy,was during the encounter with the Tiger. For that is a fear I have known. "Full Metal Jacket" & "Platoon" are far more reflective and relevant of my experience. The first for its depiction of the training I went through. While the latter, more closely resembles my experiences in 'Nam'.



The vids don't do justice to the awesome physical & audio experience of being there in person when an airstrike is occurring. See my response above to ordinance going off.



The strange fact of the matter is, 'Gooks' as was explained to me, is a Korean word indicating 'foreigners', so technically, I was the Gook! As for my enemy, who can blame them for trying to determine their countries future. I was the one butting into their business. I only hope the simple folks working their plots, can work in peace.



It would seem that we are a long way from evolving into a species that can live without war. Until that day, we shall sadly have the military as a substantial part of our culture, sucking away at the economies of the world, when there are people in need. I can only do my best to help us evolve, so that one day. my progeny, shall live without need for war, for war is truely not good for living things.

Jefferson Airplane, Somebody to Love
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiKzqcII0jQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiKzqcII0jQ)

A classic anti-war song of the era...

The Youngbloods - "Get Together" Re-Post Prev (anippygirl) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz0_gpjd-fg#normal)

Yes, such a good time to be wild...

Steppenwolf - Born to be wild 1969 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UWRypqz5-o#normal)

Bob Dylan, 'Masters of War'

Masters of War (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onRobFQchS0#)

The same airplanes seem to re-appear...I can identify an F-4 but what is this one? A Sabre?

It's an F-100 Super Sabre, from the lack of camo, I would put it early war. During my tour, I only worked with 1 F-100 and it was totally camo'd. In these clips, you will see a lot of repeated footage. I am always looking for new ones, and while it may have been the most well covered war ever in terms of filming, access may be a bit difficult to procure for those who make these videos.

Here's an instrumental version of 'White Rabbit'. I included it, because you can hear a piece from 'Hanoi Hannah', she played pretty good music between the propaganda bits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-0MnIKCuII (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-0MnIKCuII)

were they important? mostly we see F-4's

In my experience, that lone pair I worked with indicates they were used infrequently up in my AO (Leatherneck Corner) Most of my air support was in the form of US Navy aircraft. A-4, F-8, F-4 and the occasional A-6 (from high altitude, with quite the payload) All USAF support I recvd was in the form of F-4s (except for nighttime gunship cover 'Puff the Magic Dragon/AC-47 & Spooky/AC-130') It has long been my suspicion that the F-100 & A-1 SkyRaiders I worked with were RVNAF aircraft.

thx for the info, we need to set up a Vietnam Aircraft topic!

This thread would not be complete without this addition. You see I had two cassette tapes with me during my tour., both S.F. bands that I had the pleasure of seeing in person many times, The Grateful Dead's first album & Quicksilver Messenger Service's second album. ('Happy Trails') We played them every chance we got and since they were the only two cassettes we had, we played them repeatedly (I daresay I know every note by heart).  Here is a long version of one song on the album...'Cream Puff Wars'

(footage is typical S.F. street scene from the time)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1M5xqDQW58 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1M5xqDQW58)

And this is perhaps my favorite music from the two cassettes I carried...

Quicksilver Messenger Service - Who Do You Love Suite (1969) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu1XhZrdtKc#ws)


This being a Live version, sound quality is rough, but very rich in improv licks.
Quicksilver Messenger Service - Who Do You Love (Live 1970) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n7rDlD2J5E#)

do you recall on what you listened to tapes?



I like it...although that's not a real surprise...

unsure of what exactly your asking here. I'll answer as best I can...

My buddy 'Goody' (D.R. Goodland) owned the cassette tape player, but had no tapes, I had no player, but did have the two aforementioned tapes. It would seem we were fated to be best buds. The depleted radio batteries for my PRC-25 radio supplied ample power to run the player for a few days all we had to do was jury rig some wires to pass the power on. Since we had no access to other tapes we played the hell out of those two. Neither one of us thought to ask for the folks back home to send more, I guess being grunts humping the highlands of Vietnam discouraged us wanting to have too large a collection to lug around.

Hope that answered your question. There was always someone with a radio (transistor type) around, but Goody's was the only tape player I knew of in the company.


Here's a cut from side 2 of the 'Happy Trails' album


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv2e3pmfF0k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv2e3pmfF0k)

This is from Quicksilver's first album....but still part of my Tour 'Soundtrack'


Quicksilver Messenger Service - Gold and Silver (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhraiPTORhI#)

carrying all that weight...how long were the walks/marches in distance/time?

Queston:

 
Our AO was in the highlands bordering Laos & North Vietnam, it was called 'Leatherneck Corner'. Therefore the horizontal distance covered might be less than a mile (~1500m). However, the nature of the terrain was mountainous and it would take us the entire day to reach the next peak. I guess you'd say we used the tactics that the Brits learned in Afghanistan. 'crowning the peaks'. We rarely stayed down low in the drainages, as we did not wish to allow the NVA to have a height advantage on us, for obvious tactical reasons. Therefore, while I cannot give you how far we humped, we generally humped until just before dusk.


I never heard them play this long version on AFVN...
Eric Burdin & the Animals, Sky Pilot

ERIC BURDON & THE ANIMALS- "SKY PILOT" (LONG VERSION) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69zvFnVa03g#)

ok, so I should see it as patrolling a pre-defined area?

were troops always deployed in the same area or did that change to keep the men alert?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV9o9r14v3I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV9o9r14v3I)

This Lady blew me out of the Filmore a time or two...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjD4eWEUgMM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjD4eWEUgMM)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3_S-YaRLa8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3_S-YaRLa8)

The Rolling Stones, 'Satisfaction'

The Rolling Stones Satisfaction (rare) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_VbImuG71M#)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tEIW3w4_-o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tEIW3w4_-o)

Oliver, 'Good Morning Starshine'

Good Morning Starshine - Apollo 11 Moon Mission (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuLqvrak0Xw#)

The Apollo 11 flight took place during my ToD, so it is fitting that I found this music with this clip as they both fit within the theme.
It would be another 7-8 months before I saw the actual footage of the moon landing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ga9Bs4fzSY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ga9Bs4fzSY)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loyRYFUYg9g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loyRYFUYg9g)

Johnny Cash-Ring of Fire 1963 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRlj5vjp3Ko#)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l59IPomH7Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l59IPomH7Q)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81u6fMRM1IE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81u6fMRM1IE)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGbokn4r38o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGbokn4r38o)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTO7WVxjz3A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTO7WVxjz3A)

last weekend I watched 'Walk the Line' with Reese Witherspoon & Joaquin Phoenix...nice movie

The Supremes, 'You Keep Me Hangin' On'

The Supremes | Live @ The Hollywood Palace (1966) - "You Keep Me Hangin' On" & "Somewhere" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RabQLuj4N8#)

and the Vanilla Fudge version...

Vanilla Fudge - You Keep Me Hangin' On (Radio Edit) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IfTHLi-7rk#ws)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g9PiEgYYUU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g9PiEgYYUU)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijTe7jhjnc0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijTe7jhjnc0)

Tommy James & the Shondelles, 'Crimson & Clover'

Tommy James & The Shondells - Crimson And Clover (1968) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM6c3bCxwSM#)

C'mon man, you can't end War if your not willing to sing about it.

Country Joe & The Fish, 'I Feel Like I'm Fixin' to Die Rag'


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Soy3PHV3RiM# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Soy3PHV3RiM#)


If you dont think I was serious, look what happens when you dont sing out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VvuZu6gOso# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VvuZu6gOso#)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=487TPrQ7uW8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=487TPrQ7uW8)

FACman,

what did you carry around as weapons when you operated as FACman.

I suppose only sidearms due to the heavy load you had to carry?

Koen sez:



As an RTO, I was authorized to carry a .45 cal pistol, some RTOs carried rifles any way, I personally opted for the lighter load. Though the term lighter is a relative term in this case. A couple of months after Operation Purple Martin, when I had recovered from my psychotic frame of mind, while in the rear between patrols, someone stole my .45. Had that occurred whilst still in my berserker mentality, I surely would have gotten a replacement. However, in my new Zen like state of mind, I was determined to get off the karmic wheel and instead of drawing a new weapon, I spent the rest of my tour unarmed. Since I was in the company CP it was unlikely I would be called upon to defend myself unless we were going to hell in a handbasket at which time, I figured finding a weapon would be the least of my problems. I had started on a pacifists path, which would eventually, upon my return to 'The World', involve me in some of the large anti-war marches in the S.F. Bay Area.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1nBeH0a1gY#normal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1nBeH0a1gY#normal)

Video note:
*at 2:06 you will see a guy on radio watch (2 handsets on two different nets), I spent many hours in this mode.

In the pic at the start of this vid the second man back is an RTO, that pack frame is the kind I started out with once I picked up a radio. At the top you can see the radio mounted and on the back of the radio you can see a yellow smoke grenade (Banana/Lemon when ID'd by pilots coming into your LZ). This backpack is configured for a patrol as his haversack is not attached under the radio making it much lighter, ~ 30 lbs (14kgs) instead of 60-70 lbs (27-32kgs).

The beach boys -good vibrations (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC2gZMNkyJo#lq-lq2-hq)


sound of silence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hUy9ePyo6Q#lq-lq2-hq)

FacMan:
where did you get your training, first to become a soldier and afterwards to become a FACman?

My 'Boot Camp' was at USMCRD San Diego (USMC Recruit Depot).  That would make me, what other Marines humorously call, a "Hollywood Marine'. Those who do their 'Boot Camp' at Parris Island in South Carolina are humorously called 'Real Marines' but make no mistake, we are all Marines. My follow up training for my primary MOS (Rifleman/0311) was done at Camp Pendleton, nestled in the coastal mountains of southern California. In all, my training lasted about 6 months. My FAC training was done while in Vietnam, via OJT (On the Job) training. I was taught the skills by the outgoing FACman which took about a month.

By the way, I was not a soldier, I was a Marine. It may not seem like much of a distinction to the layman, but you will never hear a Marine call himself a soldier. It has everything to do with the 'Esprit de Corps'!

when I refer to soldier I ment that you didn't have a grade yet so in theory you were a soldier but since you were in the Marines you were a marine...no matter what grade you had...correct?

riflemen is the overall name for infantrymen? (marines or not)

ps: feel free to add all the abbreviations and specific names and locations to the glossary topic so I can add them.

I understood your question, but felt it my duty to 'square you away' regarding what you call a Marine. Soldiers are in the Army. As for my grade, yes I had a grade when I entered, I was a Private, and as the drill instructors always reminded us, we were lower than whale s--t. One example of our lowly status was, through the entire Boot Camp, until the day we graduated, we were not allowed to spit, as that was reserved for Marines.




Yes, that is correct. However, in the Corps, ALL Marines are riflemen first. It doesn't matter if your a cook, a mechanic or a clerk, we all received the same training in basic infantry combat skills (maneuver, fire discipline, etc.) after Boot Camp at ITR (Infantry Training Regiment). Only after completing this training, do you go on to your duty MOS.

what always wondered me is the 'goal' of the US having the Marines?

has it changed through history?

The original US Marines, were copied from the British Marines of the day. They were shipborne riflemen who would snipe at the enemy from the rigging. They also provided security aboard ship and landing parties if needed.



Yes, it has changed significantly, though on capitol ships they still provide security and run the brigs. Their role has expanded in that security for all US embassies are provided by the Corps. And if US citizens need rescue, they can legally enter a foreign country to evacuate Americans, without being considered as an 'Act of War'. Though even that is changing in these weird times, with use of Delta Force, Navy Seals etc, for this kind of mission.. They have also expanded into a rapid deployment force as there is usually a battalion 'Afloat' in the Atlantic/Med and the Pacific/Indian Oceans.

So their state of readiness is always 1 or 2 steps higher then the Army?

In WWII we always get the idea that they were everywhere in the Pacific doing ALL the important battles, is that so or is that the media?

And can we compare the use of the Marines in WWII with the Waffen-SS? Meaning, operating together with the Army but used as a spearhead or as a force to send to where the Army can't achive their goals?

I wouldn't say they're at a higher readiness, it is due to it being subordinate to the Dept of the Navy. As a part of the US Navy, they are easily mobilized and moved with the Navy vessels at their disposal. The Marines are amphib/helo deployable Light Infantry. The US Army's 82nd Airborne has USAF transport aircraft available for an even faster deployment. . To mobilize Heavy Mechanized Army Brigades requires utilizing the Merchant Marine to transport them as they have a lot more equipment. The time required to assemble for deployment is commensurately longer.




While the Marines did show up just about everywhere in the Pacific (see story below), The Army presence in the Pacific was extensive since by its very nature, the Marine Corps is a very small service and would not have been able to retake the whole Pacific without doubling or tripling it's size.




 




I would be hard pressed to defend a position saying  the US Army couldn't do things that the Corps could.  I would rather say, that due to their extensive training in amphibious deployments, one would expect to see the Marines, play a prominent role in an island hopping campaign.

ok, thx

Indeed, in most WWII movies and docus in and around the Pacific the Marines are the ones shown so the viewer starts thinking that they did it on their own.

Is it so then that a big part of the Marines is always 'on the road'?

What about the Gulf Wars? Since you stated that the speciality is amphibious landings....not much water in the desert  hihi

In time of war, yes. In peacetime, only a couple of battalions will be afloat. Usually one in the Med and one in WestPac.




As Light Infantry, the Corps is extremely flexible. There weren't a lot of Amphib operations in Vietnam either, but plenty of Helo operations. Remember the Amphib landing or the Helo insertion was just the opening movement of operations, once on the ground I spent most of my tour riding around on my LPCs (Leather Personel Carriers(boots to the dim)) as do most Light Infantry.

and now a break for a zippy little tune, since there aren't very many questions coming in from the audience...

Jefferson Airplane - Volunteers (with Lyric) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SboRijhWFDU#normal)

To me this is a quintessential sound from my tour of duty and representative of the San Francisco sound of the era.
With that being said I present to you...'Gold & Silver' by Quicksilver (one of my all time favorite pieces)

Quicksilver Messenger Service - Gold and Silver (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhraiPTORhI#normal)

thx for Quicksilver....didn't know them yet...

This song was a favorite with the GIs because of the subject...

The Box Tops, 'The Letter'

The Box Tops - The Letter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQaUs5J2wdI#)

Did not know them yet, strangely familiar sounds, and (w/o any disrespect intended): Isn´t this a bit "Take 5", modernized (for that time frame), IMHO at least the base line is a clear copy?

Rattler

The Dave Brubeck Quartet - Take Five (1961) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwNrmYRiX_o#normal)

Wow.  Is all I can say.  Thanks for linking this thread for me FACman,  truly educational.

Do you see that girl in the video in your link #31 (the little naked girl running, it's a rather famous picture),  well she came to our church when I was living in British Columbia to do a speech some years back.  It's a small world huh?

It's interesting that you were only 19 when in serving in Vietnam,  they say that the average age of the American soldier that served in Vietnam was 19.  Like the song states:  'you're old enough to kill, but too young to vote'.  How crazy is that?  

Yes, I liked that film with Reese and Phoenix - 'walk the line',  a true love story,  and how they overcame.  

Just one question,  looking back how do you feel about the Vietnamese people now?  The one's you fought against?  It was such a crazy war wasn't it?  I feel really bad for the young soldiers who served there,  it seems they just dumped them there and forgotten.

Amazing music on this thread.

I hold no animosity for the Vietnamese people. I have the utmost respect for the Warriors that we fought against, able and capable adversaries they were.



I feel the craziness comes from the lies that got us into it, much like the war in Irak.



After forty years of struggle, I am only now beginning to understand why I act and feel the way I do. Unlike today, they did not treat us for our psychic wounds, and did in fact forget and abandon us.



Yes, it is the soundtrack of my life as well as my tour.

I think is is very similar, and I like the original as well if it is in fact a copy, SF music scene had a healthy jazz influence from the earlier Beat scene in North Beach...

Jody, reviweing the thread, the first (and I now see the second, fith, sixth, and seventh too) vid has been deleted "for viloating the terms of use", any chance you can get it from another - not supressed "on demand" (who demanded it?) - source (as I remember the pics but not the gist to find a copy)?

EDIT: Just on the first page, of 15 videos posted, only three can be viewed, the rest is supressed for being either "Sony: Prohibited to be displayed in your country"  or Google/Youtube: "Supressed on demand: Violating terms of use", definitely time to change video storage site...

It is a real pity, actually, these vids - for me at least - represent history, I somehow over time got the feeling there should be something like "Patrimonial protection" applied to such vids as it is now to buildings with "historical value" as a standard!? I am more and more feeling like living in the dark dictator times again! Any ideas on how to organize a motion for that on the net?!: "WE are THE PEOPLE!"

The third, fifth and 7th vid "...contains Sony content which you are not allowed to view in your country...." ?? WHAT? Can you repeat, plz, Mr. Sony? AFAIK my constituition allows me to view anything, care to be a bit more pricise?

I have been left open mouthed, just after reading 10 posts... Where are we going to, which world do we want to live in? Seriously??

First take: Read Koens post on "How to dl Utube vids" and save them on our machines, upload to WaT from there, not as glöeamy but will work...  Jody, I urge you to review the thread and go through the vids before more vanish, let´s deal with the legal issues later (I have got a Panama server we can use).

Rattler

I have started the process of replacing the lost music, but this is gonna take some time. Once again, thanks for the heads up Rattler as I dont go back and look at them very often.

Jody, I haven´t been on the thread for a long time also, but that is then presumably the good side of having girls on the site ?  evilsmall :whistle:

Here the how-to by Koen: http://www.warandtactics.com/smf/wat-board-technical-info/how-to-download-a-youtube-video/ (http://www.warandtactics.com/smf/wat-board-technical-info/how-to-download-a-youtube-video/)

If you have vids stored, let me know, I can (as TA) make sure we can view them on WaT.

Onwards !

(For us Leftist Germans this would be, with Berthold Brecht: "Vorwärts! ...und nicht vergessen, worin unsere Stärke besteht: Die Solidarität!)!", from 1931 (original recording). Traduction: "Onwards, and do never forget what makes us strong! Solidarity!").

Really, let´s give it to youtube, let us try and make them to revisit their standards!

Lyrics: Berthold Brecht (The Three Penny Opera: Mack the Knife), Music: Hanns Eisler ("Hangmen Also Die!", "Schweik in the Second World War")

A rough and bad translation by google, dont have the time to do it myself except the snippet below (3rd verse): http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.erinnerungsort.de%2Fsolidaritaetslied--28-22vorwaerts-und-nicht-vergessen-22-29-_193.html&sl=de&tl=en (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.erinnerungsort.de%2Fsolidaritaetslied--28-22vorwaerts-und-nicht-vergessen-22-29-_193.html&sl=de&tl=en)




EDIT: Changed Vid, now it is not from 1931... :(But, and that is the reason why I changed it, it includes some pictures of the genious Hanns Eisler, directing on the streets in Berlin this song for a demonstration of a lot of  -300.000- people that did not want Hitler to come - and failed miserably).

Hanns Eisler - Solidaritätslied - HK Gruber (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXSymRTugqk#normal)

Rattler

furthermore...we have our OWN youtube channel  iconclap

so...found some videos on youtube? send me the link, I'll try to download and then upload them to WaT on Youtube  :champ:

http://www.youtube.com/user/warandtactics (http://www.youtube.com/user/warandtactics)

Yes, I have found many, but they keep getting shut down by You Tube, and they are for my Interview soundtrack so to put them on our channel would seem to defeat the purpose.

Still, when Koen can dl them we can upload them, doesnt matter then when YouTube shuts them down. thy will disply in your interview thread from *our* WaT folder, at least that is the idea...

Rattler

Very well, Then Koen needs to grab the ones that are still here, while I find replacements for those stolen from us.

ok

edit: downloaded 38 videos

some have no artist/title info, can you help with these FACman?

I'll clean up titles and such, re-organize as much as possible our YT channel and finally upload them.

Yes, they even played this one on AFVN radio (Armed Forces Vietnam)

Universal Soldier Donovan Anti War (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to5d4p4aYiQ#normal)

Funny at 1:06 they use a photo of Charles Upham the only combat soldier to win the Victoria Cross twice.

Jody,

I still have all videos on my HD and your channel is waiting for me to upload them...

all the stuff on the floor, is that all backpack?  :o

Koen sez:


No, my helmet and flak jacket are at the bottom (r) side of the pack, so I carried the whole pile one way or another. You can see a few of the many canteens I carried. At one point I had 8-10 canteens strung across the back.

well, I suspect your back was out of solid concrete  ;)

Yes, my back was made of Iron in those days, I weighed in at 135 lbs., unlike today when I am limited to lifting 20 lbs. and walk with a cane at 250 lbs.

Black Sabbath, 'Ironman'
Black Sabbath Iron Man(Live in Paris 1970) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MII3ns2KTBc#)
embedded

Nowadays we have the nice waterpacks from Camelback.
Very handy things, they fit under your backpack, and have a little hose, you can suck the water out anytime you need it.
No need to grab for those unhandy canteens, and even more importnat the weight of the water is divided over your entire back.
It also gives you more space to clip other stuff on your flak jacket :)

Yes Henk, the marvels of modern warfare. I used a camelback during my Veterans walk from SF to Great Salt Lake. So convenient.

During my ToD, we would occasionally sit on a hilltop for a few days and run patrols off it. This in turn required us to send off water patrols to resupply the perimeter security elements that didnt get to patrol into the drainages and get their water. These patrols would gather up empty canteens and patrol down into the drainage to fill the them. On one such patrol, I had filled two of my own canteens after filling about 10 I was carrying for the guys still up on the hill, by the time I got back into the perimeter, I had drank 1 1/2 of the canteens I had filled just a short time before. Thats how hot and dehydrated those of us who had gone down to fetch water (a heavy load on the uphill) became that day. It hardly seemed worth it to those who had humped it, but the guys on the hill needed it.

Yeah I know.
I heard from my friends whom just returned, that they drank 4 to 6 liters of water in the summer in Afghanistan.
You sweat it out faster than you can drink it :)
Same in the jungle in Congo.

JFTR: Same here in Mallorca: Working (not hard labour, just normal issues) will need you 4 ltrs daily in summer. I imagine that with gear and BDU it will be more over there.

Kongo, as far as I have heard, might be  different thing, there it is more fatigue because of high humidity tht is an issue, not so much dehydration or salt (Kalium) loss.

Rattler

I suspect the Congo would be very much like Vietnam, humidity is a factor. I recall one operation (in vicinity of 'The Rockpile') where our initial humping was done in 8-10 foot tall elephant grass in 110+f temps. The humidity down in the elephant grass was atrocious, with no wind at all. By noon we started having heat casualties, and had to leave several pockets of ill Marines (with security) to recover. We stopped for the day only when our K9 handler said his dog needed medivac because he had unexpectedly started bleeding from his nose. What an eye opener, Marines could go down without medivac but not the dog.

Jody, about the KIA

did all return to the US?
are their cemeteries/graves of GI's in Laos, Cambodja or Vietnam?

I believe the KIAs were transported to Travis AFB in Ca. initially. If the KIA was identified, his body would be returned to his family. If the KIA was unidentified, it would have to go to a military forensics lab for identification. Since we didn't have DNA testing like today, I suspect that there may have been some inadvertant errors made, which we may well never know about. Perhaps that is just as well. The KIAs would be buried as per the request of their families, some were buried in private cemetaries near their hometowns/families, while others were buried at National Military Cemetaries located across the US. The VA's National Cemetery Administration maintains 131 national cemeteries in 39 states (and Puerto Rico) as well as 33 soldier's lots and monument sites.

I am not very knowledgable on this subject, as upon my return and for many years after, I did my best to forget about those who didnt come home. Not out of disrespect, but out of the sheer pain the memories would bring to the surface. It took 26 years before I was able to even begin looking for Doc's family, to tell them of the circumstances of his death. It was a difficult and painful task, but I was successful and his family knows that he died trying to save the life of a wounded Marine. He shall always remain a Hero in my heart for his actions that day and if there is an afterlife, I shall surely seek him out. It is only now, in my waning years that I can look back without internalizing that pain. Dont get me wrong, it is every bit as painful, its just that my callouses have toughened up and perhaps I find a need to remember those I may soon meet again.

Music I listened to when young, Wolfman Jack beig one transporter.

Jody, any idea what happened to the group members? Are they still there? Alive at least?

Rattler

Music wise thats kind of "Take 5", (after 0:18 into the Quicksilver vid) no? Intended? Inspired? Did this song mean anything yto you guys going ´Nam? Nerdy guys in suits not moving a bit but displaying more talent and musical knowledge than many other "wild" groups at that time (I know, thats 61, and before war, but still?)

The Dave Brubeck Quartet - Take Five (1961) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwNrmYRiX_o#)

Rattler

Grace Slick- vocals
Interview with Grace Slick (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPTzwxr-ZqU#)

Marty Balin- vocals, guitar
MARTY BALIN - "Count On Me" & "With Your Love" January 23rd, 2010 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9F5tLsA6hc#)

Paul Kantner- vocals, guitar
The Baby Tree - Paul Kantner & Jefferson Starship (2006) HD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuDh_b8U34Y#ws)

Jorma Kaukonen- guitar
Jack Casady- bass

Welcome to the Fur Peace Ranch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgWBhaDhha8#)

Spencer Dryden- drums

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spencer_Dryden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spencer_Dryden)

As you can see, all but Spencer are still alive and well.

I can only speak for myself here, I had no exposure to jazz until long after my ToD, and little interest in music, other than the SF music scene, until well after my ToD as well. I do not reject the chance that the band members were influenced by other musicians, in fact I would be surprised if they hadn't been.