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Author Topic: Rocket vs. Tube Artillery  (Read 16307 times)
Rattler
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« on: 25 October 2009, 23:38:53 »
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Seeing the Hotchkiss with the "Wurfrahmen 40" I thought it might be a good idea to oppose Rocket and Tube Arty advantages and disadvantagses in general (mixed from wikpedia, absoluteastronomy and FAS):

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Artillery: Is a military Combat Arms which employs any apparatus, machine, an assortment of tools or instruments, a system or systems used as weapons for the discharge of large projectiles in combat as a major contribution of fire power within the overall military capability of an armed force.


- Rockets produce no recoil, while conventional artillery systems produce significant recoil. Unless firing within a very small arc with the possibility of wrecking a SP artillery systems vehicle suspension, gun artillery must usually be braced against recoil. In this state they are immobile, and can not change position easily. Rocket artillery is much more mobile and can change position easily. This "shoot-and-scoot" ability makes the platform difficult to target. A rocket artillery piece could, conceivably, fire on the move. Rocket systems produce a significant amount of backblast, however, which imposes its own restrictions on how launchers may be sited and the arcs that they can fire without damage to themselves and neighbouring vehicles.

- Rocket artillery cannot usually match the accuracy and sustained rate of fire of conventional artillery. They may be capable of very destructive strikes by delivering a large mass of explosives simultaneously, thus increasing the shock effect and giving the target less time to take cover. Modern computer-controlled conventional artillery have recently begun to acquire the possibility to do something similar through MRSI (pronounced "mercy": Multiple Round Simultaneous Impact arty) but it is an open question if MRSI is really practical in a combat situation.

- Rocket artillery typically has a very large fire signature, leaving a clear smoke-trail showing exactly where the barrage came from. Since the barrage does not take much time, however, the rocket artillery can move away quickly.

- Tube artillery can use a forward observer to correct fire, thus achieving further accuracy. This is usually not practical with rocket artillery.

- Tube artillery shells are typically cheaper and less bulky than rockets, so they can deliver a larger amount of explosive at the enemy per weight of ammunition or per money spent.

- While tube artillery shells are smaller than rockets, the gun itself must be very large to match the range of rockets. Therefore rockets typically have longer range while the rocket launchers remain small enough to mount on mobile vehicles. Extremely large guns like the Paris Gun (the name of an artillery piece with which the Germany bombarded Paris during World War I. This oversized railway gun was used from March to August 1918) have been rendered obsolete by long range missiles.

- If the artillery barrage was intended as a preparation for an attack, and it usually is, a short but intense barrage will give the enemy less time to prepare by, for instance, dispersing.

- The higher accuracy of gun artillery means that it can be used to attack an enemy close to a friendly force. This combined with the higher capacity for sustained fire makes cannon artillery more suitable than rocket artillery for defensive fire. It is also the only practicable system for counter-battery fire (a type of mission assigned to military artillery forces, which are tasked with locating and firing upon enemy artillery).

FWIW,

Rattler
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Mad Russian
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« Reply #1 on: 26 October 2009, 06:19:11 »
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Tube artillery delivers more penetration and shrapnel than rockets. Rocket delivered rounds are mostly blast and therefore the main targets are soft. Soft targets include anything unarmored or not built with strong materials such as concrete.

Good Hunting.

MR
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FACman
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« Reply #2 on: 26 October 2009, 18:50:07 »
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From a subjective viewpoint, having been under fire from both, rocket incoming was far less disconcerting than conventional arty incoming by a pucker factor of 10. Due largely to the random nature of rockets as opposed to the directed nature of tubed arty.
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Rattler
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« Reply #3 on: 26 October 2009, 18:57:28 »
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Rocket has a more psychological impact compared to tube´s more physiological impact.

I have been only under mortar fire (60mm) once and was surprised how overall ineffective it was against (shallowly) dug in inf (a dug in - not entrenched - coy stretched out on 350 mtrs in woods - treeline -  in Bosnia under fire for 4+ hours, 2 casuality by direct hit, several shrapnel injuries but nothing heavy; lots of shit pants though - not necessarily virtually - , mine incl.).  It was the suppressive effect that was more important, for this time (my guess 3 tubes, 1 volley every 2-3 min) nobodoy ever moved or lifted his head...

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« Reply #4 on: 26 October 2009, 19:01:33 »
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Yesterday I saw the Dragon fly on TV with future weapons.
A new 120mm mortar system, auto loader and able to aim, turn and fire in 18 seconds.
It was told to be accurate down to 2 meters.
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Rattler
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« Reply #5 on: 26 October 2009, 19:06:01 »
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In the situation I was in they were (I guess on purpose) wavering all the time with large variation, no accuracy gaining intention observed, rather supressing the whole treeline.

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stoffel
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« Reply #6 on: 26 October 2009, 19:45:10 »
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I think thats the sole purpose for those light mortars, suppression.
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« Reply #7 on: 29 October 2009, 17:42:32 »
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There's a good chance that the guys who were firing mortars at you that day were just really bad at using mortars.
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Rattler
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« Reply #8 on: 29 October 2009, 17:48:24 »
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I think thats the sole purpose for those light mortars, suppression.

There's a good chance that the guys who were firing mortars at you that day were just really bad at using mortars.


Don´t think so, redneck (though those were the first few days of th war and there probably was no real training present), also this was most rarely old series ammo (PRX and NSB, M720 series probaby; also we saw some old series stuff like the M49 most probably, IMP only):

As with stoffel, I think the suppression was the desired (and achieved) effect. This was why I brought it up in arguing rocket vs. tube, as I think that multiple area strikes in a given moment have a devastating suppressive effect on that area way beyond the actual damage done.

JFTR: Being in treeline helped a lot as with the low vpm cycle the trunks and the branch canopy actuall caught a lot of shrapnel, being shallowly dug in covered you against almost everything except direct hits.

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Mad Russian
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« Reply #9 on: 29 October 2009, 18:43:20 »
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I would have thought being dug in under trees would be the worst place to be in a mortar attack.

The rounds should have gone off overhead and sprayed a wide area with shrapnel from above. Coming right straight down on you laying in a hole that didn't protect you.

Also, mortars are tube artillery and not rockets. They are very much aimed fire.

Good Hunting.

MR
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Rattler
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« Reply #10 on: 30 October 2009, 00:57:27 »
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I would have thought being dug in under trees would be the worst place to be in a mortar attack.

The rounds should have gone off overhead and sprayed a wide area with shrapnel from above. Coming right straight down on you laying in a hole that didn't protect you.

Also, mortars are tube artillery and not rockets. They are very much aimed fire.

Good Hunting.

MR

Of cause they are tube, I was just comparing the effect of suprression to the rocket effect. The trees canopy rendered shrapnel mostly ineffective (that´s my guess after reviewing the numbers and having been present, I was not part of the combat myself, just there as journo...

Rattler
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