Today the first reports for the coming budgetcuts leaked to the press.
Report spoke about the loss of 10.000 jobs.
The navy would lose all its minesweepers. ( A very bad decision if you ask me)
The airforce has to get rid of more F16's
The army has to abandone the last Leopard 2tanks and the Cougar helicopters for the airmobile infantryunits.
Our army has only 4.500 infantry and tanksoldiers at the moment (without reserve forces) when this plan will be executed it will be even less. :(
We are only one step away of abandoning the rest of the army.
I wonder how NATO and  on a lower level the combined NL/GE corps HQ will react.
Itr simply means we have no more offensive or transport capability.

A black day.......

Here is a bit more on this one...


Dutch Army to Sell All Leopards and Cougars
   
   
(Source: Dutch News; published April 8, 2011)
 
 
   
THE HAGUE --- The cabinet is virtually certain to announce enormous cutbacks at defence today. According to a leaked draft version of the measures, 12,000 jobs and complete army units will disappear.

Defence Minister Hans Hillen already announced permanent budget cuts of 1 billion euros per year earlier. The cabinet already considered the far-reaching cutbacks last week. The decision was however postponed and will likely be made today.


Read More... (http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/124454/dutch-army-to-shut-down-as-tanks,-helicopters-retired.htmle)

Here are the exact numbers.
12.600 jobs will disappear.
All Leopard 2 tanks together with their staff and logistic support will be fased out.
All Cougar transport choppers have to be sold.
2 of the 4 new patrolboats will be sold when they are ready, probably to Oman.
4 of the 10 minesweepers of the navy will be fased out.
1 F16 squadron  less in the inventory, sold to Chile.
Chile has more F16s flying than us at the moment if this deal goes on :(

A lot of small items arent in the inventory anymore or are lacking.
AMong them shoes and jackets, recently the army could aquire some trousers...
I have to buy my nametags at a private firm :(

All these new cuts have serious effects for our army.
We cant send out a company sized force anymore for a few days.
Operations like the one in Afghanistan arent possible anymore.
Morale is low, the first units are being fased out in may.
Nobody knows which ones, so many soldiers are going to get into trouble.
Think about finding a new job in a 5 week timespan, mortgage, car, rent, gas and electric, your bills keep coming.

New facts are emerging every day.
The secretary of defense mr Hillen tried to defend his policy against the budget cuts.
A letter to parliament leaked to the press in which Hillen claimed that: The army wasnt able to defend the country anymore after these cuts.
The prime minister and the other members of the government decided otherway.
This letter now threatens the position of mr Hillen.

Other numbers also came out, since 1990 our defense spending dropped from 2,8 to 1,4 % now, which is 0.6 % under the NATO alliance demanded 2%.
If you look at the BNP and imagine we are among the worlds richest countries its sad to see these numbers.
Our government wants to be the best but isnt able anymore to do anything for NATO, in fact after these new cuts we are depending on other countries for helicoptertransport and other duties.
Of the 987 tanks and IFVs we had in 1990 only 780 are left today (without the 80+ Leopard2 tanks)
of the 217 F16s we had only 69 will be left after the cut (87 now)

Ok but realistically was the army able to defend the country from a genuine enemy before these cuts?

Who are you likely to be at war with in the next 100 years?

Now I am just playing devils advocate here but one of the problems in the defense world is that they view the military as something you have to have and the bigger the better even when there is no short or medium term threat to justify keeping a large force and lets not forget the military does not make money for a country they just cost a hell of a lot.

Don't see this as supporting these cuts because I don't know enough to do that, I am just asking a few questions.

Well,

You may not believe it but untill a few years ago we had a fine well trained army, one of NATOs best.
Now we have about 4000 fighting men left.....
A few old F16's and a few boats.

Now look at the worlds growing economies and military powers who can endanger our trade, China, India and Iran for instance.
And also for domestic tasks.
In case of major disasters there are only 4000 men to support authorities, do you think thats enough to help a population in case of a disaster or to protect cities and major infrastructure in case of terrorist attacks?
And even worse not only that, we cannot support any more missions abroad.

What do you think the prospects of China, India and Iran storming through Europe are in the near future?

As of 2005 the NZ Defence force consisted of 9051 active personnel (all 3 branches) yet we still support missions abroad as well as cater for disaster relief such as the recent earthquake here and in Japan.

We let the police deal with wannabe terrorists though.

Basically my argument remains the same, what level of military do you really need to meet your needs there isnt one of us that wouldn't love a grand scale military with all the modern equipment available but I bet none of us are willing to foot the bill for it.

The Netherlands are now going into the 'Belgian' phase.
Opposition against the Dutch changes are stating that when these reforms go through the Dutch Army will become a 'Belgian' one... and that's not meant to be positive.

We had the same cuts during the last years, many barracks are closed, F-16s sold, all Leopard I tanks sold and much more.

What we did was focussing on some branches:
replacing the old C-130 Hercules with the brand new Airbus A400M (probably one of THE expenses) (Africa and paratroopers)
keeping a tiny but well trained and up-to-date F-16 fleet (Libya)
replacing tanks and tracked vehicles by wheeled ones (Afghanistan, Lebanon)
small Navy to operate integrated in NATO

So, the selling out of the Dutch army won't be the end of it but I fully (100%) understand the frustration. Many jobs lost, many soldiers will be relocated etc etc

On the other hand:
no, the Netherlands won't be invaded by Germany, Belgium, France or Poland BUT:
when we all start selling out who's gonna be able to react? only the superpowers which will give them even more power to do what they want to do, when they want to
the more you ask someone for help the more you become 'depending'....

Koen,

You are 100% right in this.
With losing the transport helicopters we become dependable on the US or other NATO countries for transport.
Even our own airmobile brigade has only Chinooks left after this cut and these are to big for most tactical operations.

The 3 countries I mentioned are growing rapidly and they might be a danger against our trade, they dont have to storm Europe.
But on the other hand China is rapidly colonising Africa.
Without a proper navy we cannot defend our shipping lanes anymore.
Police here cannot deal with terrorists, only Swat teams, and these are available only in major towns.
It took the first team 20 minutes to get in Alphen, 20 minutes to late.
Normal officers are only armed with Walther PPK 9 mm, do you want to stop a terrorist with that?

We need army units to to provide extra support, the police is relying on the army for extra support.
The reserve forces arent trained to fight either, but now our reserve corps will be bigger than the regular infantryunits :(

Defense can mean much more than simply "defending the country". As Henk noted, the Netherlands has treaty responsibilities at the very least. But I would think more importantly in todays world your offensive capabilities are the most important. Think Somali Pirates here. Think about the ability of your nations armed forces to respond to a crisis.

Now of course, as an American, it seems we provide an armed forces for any country that asks for one and many that don't. In our case, a smaller military would make sense. But never to the point where you can't use your military to resolve whatever issue may come up.

Good Hunting.

MR

Latest update with all numbers, facts and reasons why.

More and more news comes available to the press now.
One of the main reasons for this  cut from 600 million to 1 milliard euros is a direct result from the previous 2 governments which made a financial mess unprcedented in scale.
When minister Hillen became secretary of defense he found a completely rotten and non functioning staff at his department.
Years of mismanagement had lead to shortage of supplies, spare parts, clothing and equipment and worse above all ammunition.
Officers and civilian staff stole lots of money or invested money in rediculous ICT projects.
The secretary had to cut again to clean up the mess.
Another reason for the chaos was the fact that the previous reorganisation failed miserably and the organisation did not function as planned.
Again this secretary ( like the ones before him) defended the cuts by replying that a smaller army could still do the job because the cuts would make it healthy again.
But reorganisation 4  made the chaos only bigger instead of recovering the patient, and the coming one will probably mean the end of the army as we knew it.
The coming reorganisation will be effective on may 9th, in july all remaing details will be known for the public.

Management, support and logistical services:

For a total of 617 million euros.
- All staffs and HQs will lose 30% of their capabilities and manpower.
- The number of generals will go down from 119 to 80 while the army gets 1000 less civilian cars.
- VIP transport will be reduced.
- The brigade commanders will become responsible directly about logistcal and supply units.
- All programs for building new infrastructure are cancelled for the coming years.

Operational units:

For a total of 346 million euros.
Navy:
- 4 out of 10 minesweepers, this will reduce our capability to the Northsea only, 1 single ship will be at hand for international operations.
- 2 out of 4 patrolboats, remaining boats will be used in the Caraibian waters and for coastguard tasks, nothing available for anti-Piracy operations or for patrolling NATO borders at sea.
- 1 of the 2 supply/logistical support dhips, Hr Ms Zuiderkruis will be decommissioned.
- Hr Ms Amsterdam will keep on serving untill the new joint support shipp is ready (2015) this means that the naval command will have no supply ship available for a year.
- Airdefense weapons and 120 mm mortarsystems of the marines will be corporated with the systems of the other branches into new units.

Army,groundforces:
# Both tankbatallions will be disbanded permanently.
# 25% of the panzerhaubitze 2000 will be sold and the newly formed unit will receive the 120 mm mortar units from marines and airmobile brigades.
# The joint NL/GE corps will be cut to, 70 to 100 jobs will be lost in the staff and HQ.
# Reductions are also envisaged for the signal and communications units attached to this corps.
# Engineering and construction capability will be reduced, 101 bn will be reduced to 2 instead of 3 companies.
# Of the armored engineercapability, 2 companies HQ's will be disbanded, the remaining platoons will be transferred to the other engineer units.
# Airdefense capability will be cut for 50%, 1HQ and a logistic platoon as well as 3 platoons with Stinger missiles will be scrapped.
# 40 out of 80 MRATs will be cancelled.
# 101 artillerysupportbattery will be disbanded.
# 2 out of 6 logistical and maintanance companies will disappear.

Airforce:

+ The number of F16s will decrease from 89 to 68.
+ 2 major bases, Leeuwarden and Volkel will accomodate the remaining 4 squadrons.
+ All Cougars helis are for sale, the new NH90 will replace the last 3 Cougars that will be kept in service for SAR tasks.
+ Out of the 4 PATRIOT batteries one will be disbanded to together with a HQ component and a logistical components.
+ An order for a third DC 10 is cancelled.
+ 2 platoons of security personell are to be disbanded too, their K9s will stay in service.

Above this the army still has to find fundings for other programs like:

* Cyberoperations
* UAVs
* Network enabled capabilities
* Protecting and training against IED's
* Better cooperation with and between SF units.
* Integrated firesupport.
* Defense against Ballistic missiles
* Satellite communications and other C3I items.

serious stuff

I'm feeling with you - our army gets downsized as well, although the cuts aren't that severe... Well, maybe in a couple of years, who knows?

At least we can have the full gory of the Koninklijke Landmacht in CMSF...

Damn, but I dont like this, because it means the US will have to pick up the slack for the countries who wont defend their own interests. Perhaps we were wrong to take such a strong position against communism, so that many countries could just step back and allow us to face them off. Had a few more countries gotten sucked up behind the Iron Curtain, I doubt as many countries would have weakened themselves as much as they now have. I didnt & dont want the US to be the world's policeman. It is ridiculous that we spend more on our military than the rest of the world combined. My only hope left is that the financial crisis we currently face, will force the politicians to reduce the size and scope of our military. As for China, I do not fear them, for certainly as we have seen in the USSR, their form of govt will not last and the Chinese Spring is inevitable. Hell, the way things are going now, I foresee, we will have an American Spring as well in our future.

Yes we do, and the CV 90 to, the first game to have that vehicle :)
I had to persuade the guys at BFC to add the cv 90 :)

Jody,
I dont like it either but thats the politicians choice, I cant change it.
Never in our history did a right-winged government ever cut more money for defense than all the left-winged governments we had before this one.

While I agree with the rest of your post, here youre definitely wrong (probably inspired by the whining on this board):

While the US retain 1.4 Million active personnell, the whole of Europe (EU) still (after cuts) stands at 2.8 million troopers alltogether, which is the double.

Downsizing (Germany is now at 265.000 actives but plans to reduce again) must be relativated from the 1989 perspective of the cold war when *Europe* composed the brunt of forces, way exaggerated for todays threats (just Germany 800.000 then, total Western Europe 8 Million).

While indeed cutting for crisis reasons (from 265.000 to 220.000), e.g. Germany will raise its portion of active personell able to act outside German frontiers from 60.000 to 170.000 in the same time period. Overcome and adapt!

Its all a matter of perspective, simple whining doesnt make things clearer. The thteat has changed, the economical environment has changed, the geopolitical situation has changed, changes for the greem machine are inevitable as they reflect the response to the current threat.

Rattler

Respectfully, I beg to disagree with you Rattler, in that while Ge may be upgrading the size of her deployable forces, there is still a reluctance on the part of Ge to engage her forces overseas. The legacy of WW2 is still present in Ge and does influence her policies. Only time will show me wrong in this respect. Which is different only in philosophy from those disbanding their forces, the end result is still the same, the US must pick up the slack.

Jody,

I agree with Rattler on the German issue.
You were right in the past politics, but those were for the biggest part focussed on having drafted soldiers.
Like NL a 15 years agio, the majority of the force was made up of conscripts.
These men were not allowed to fight abroad if it wasnt for defending NATO territory.
Germany has a voluntary army now and they to have to deal with peacemissions.

Since you both live and understand that part of the world better than I, I will concede the point, however, I will believe it when I see them start to take the initiative in dealing with world issues, as opposed to having to be coaxed to participate.

The point is: For Germany it isn't desirable anymore to be at war or participate in one. And a lot of Germans have difficulty seeing the reason behind our current deployments. It might change when we get a professional army made up of voluntaries and professionals and no mother fears for her drafted son anymore... a very difficult and problematic issue. Especially since a number of German soldiers have died without actually being in combat.

Another question is: Is it OUR job to deal with "world issues"? We're supporting every peacekeeping mission there is, so you can't exactly blame us not ding anything. Or do you suggest we should invade yet another country again...?

EG sez:


Definitely not! I subscribe to the theory that you will find no one more against war, than a Veteran of War. I guess what Im trying to say, and doing a poor job of it, is that I am truly weary of being the world's policeman and I would love to see others pick up the mantle. For my entire life, my country has taken on many tasks, which I think better taken on by the members of the UN. I am not an American who fears the UN, as many of my countrymen do. Instead I embrace the concept, and wish that no country held veto power, for it blunts the tide of world opinion and the evolution of that world body. I consider myself a citizen of the planet, holding no empirically superior insight as to what is best for the world, due to the circumstances of my birth.

Well,

As you allknow elections are up next week here in Holland.
And off course all left winged politicians know where to get the money for their pet preojects....the army again.

The army is nowadays still reorganizing and isnt ready yet with the new organization.
New plans rolled out of the hats of our left friends.....

The army budget has to be cut again. This time between 1 and 2.1 millard euros.
It basically means 23.000 soldiers will be fired.
The airmobile brigade will be reduced from 3 to 1 batallion.
Marines will be reduced with 1 batallion.
After the selling of our last Leopard the remaining 2 mechanized brigades should be disbanded together with all new vehicles like the CV90, Boxer and Patrias.
2/3rd of the support and maintenance units will be disbanded.
There are plans to abandone all light (4 ton) trucks and replace them with lease vans.
The navy will be cut to 1 operational Frigate and mine-vessel.
The airforce wont get a new fighter and have to fly on with an even lower number of F16's.

If these plans will be implemented we have 2 bn of marines and airmobile units with a few choppers and no armored assets/ artillery anymore.
Most politicians think we can ask help from our NATO allies if things go wrong.

September 12 is going to be a dark day for the proud servicemen and omen of the Dutch army.