The Military => The Military: General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Rattler on 28 March 2009, 02:14:06



Title: Question about Frag Genades
Post by: Rattler on 28 March 2009, 02:14:06
We have been discussing this today w/o coming to a final conclusion (as it was mere theoretical, nobody at the table had actually tried it out):

Will a Frag Grenade actually explode (the *same way* that it does when you set it off manually) when you hit it with a bullet (the discussion was supposing a thrown Frag that turned dud: Could one set it off to effect with an aimed shot at it)?

Opinions went from "Yes, of cause" over "It will blow up but w/o the usual effect" to "No, it won´t be affected at all, just break". My take is that it would set off as usual.

Opinions? Has anybody tried that?

Rattler


Title: Re: Question about Frag Genades
Post by: FACman on 28 March 2009, 17:38:59
I suspect it would depend upon the size of round striking and where you hit the grenade. The detonator for a grenade (in US) is a blasting cap, which are extremely touchy, no matter what their use. Impact from a bullet, providing it is not a glancing shot, and sufficient mass to impart the energy inward, should set it off. However, if the blasting cap is malfunctioning, all bets are off.

ays,

J


Title: Re: Question about Frag Genades
Post by: Rattler on 29 March 2009, 00:33:11
-snip-However, if the blasting cap is malfunctioning, all bets are off.


This was exactly the basic assumption, a dud.

Rattler


Title: Re: Question about Frag Genades
Post by: FACman on 29 March 2009, 02:45:38
...if the blasting cap is malfunctioning...

Allow me to clarify; the blasting cap has two elements, the igniter & the blast compound. If the igniter is at fault, the blast compound is still sensitive and able to be set off by the correct kinetic shock. This type of grenade would typically be blown with a demo charge, as I wouldnt want to be carrying it. If the igniter works, but the blast compound doesnt, I doubt a bullet would do the trick either.

Someone with some EOD exp/training, should have your best answer.

ays,

J


Title: Re: Question about Frag Genades
Post by: Geordie on 29 March 2009, 23:59:24
In my experience two things happen when you throw a grenade.

1.  It goes off

2.  Its a blind.

Now, option 2 can happen more often than you think.  Throwing a grenade which doesnt go off on a range, immediately stops play.  You wait for a period of time before doing anything (occasionally it will go off on its own, so you wait a while past the mean time of it blowing up).

What happens next is that someone then goes out and attaches a small charge to the grenade, then blows it up.

Now, the explosive is what makes it blow.  Kinetic energy from a bullet, may or may not serve the same purpose, I would guess that depending on the size of the round fired it may either split apart or just possibly explode, but all depends on range, mass and the energy expanded.  Shoot it from 2 feet and you may be surprised!


Title: Re: Question about Frag Genades
Post by: stoffel on 30 March 2009, 00:00:34
If we have a dud on the range, orders are to wait for 2 hours.
After that you call in the guys from the bombsquad, they will blow the grenade with a small democharge.

If it can be done with a single bullit why should we do all that?


Title: Re: Question about Frag Genades
Post by: FACman on 30 March 2009, 01:25:07
Henk sez:
Quote
If it can be done with a single bullit why should we do all that?


Most grenades are roundish, and much like sloped armor, any shot not exactly dead on, will ricochet, causing the grenade to fly off (not good). Small demo charges are SOP for their disposal. Besides, EOD or Engineers love to blow things up., right MR?

ays,

J