I would like to start modelling a Panther or KingTiger tank, preferrably in late '44 camo, style 'Wacht am Rhein'.

Looking for some helpful info:

which scale to use?
which scale to use when I want to extend to dioramas?
what brand?

and more tips?

thx

K

Well,

I would go for 1/35th scale.
Lots of extras and lots of things you can make yourself.
Tamiyas models are excellent( you saw mine :) )
But for a lower budget Dragon has good models either.

Check the books from Francois Verlinden for more tips and techniques.
Every good modelshop has them.

it's very hard around here to find good modelshops, I found 2, both into R/C models and that's not what I want...

saw a huge box with a remote Pz V G....damn...almost 600€'s  :o

I would like to start with the KingTiger...not TOO big, too expensive...

Dragon seems to apply 1/72

WWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWW: check this out: http://www.naritafamily.com/Scalemodel/AFVs/16kingtiger/photo_gallery.htm (http://www.naritafamily.com/Scalemodel/AFVs/16kingtiger/photo_gallery.htm)

 

Well, this is 1:16(hence the ability to detail), and the makers are Japanese (hard to beat)  ;D

I dont know about this kind of models, but for air and naval at that scale I would always go and really model, i.e. take the blueprints and think something up, no boxed stuff.

As I started (a/c) modeling some 40+ yrs ago for me wood (balsa) is the material of choice (and that wont changed simply because I now have a lot of experience in that field), but I am sure there are alternatives out today that might faciliate things.

Rattler

Lol, I have the Tiger 1 from Tamiya on 1/16.
Cost when I got it(present for my 30th birthday) 80 euros and thats 18 years ago.....
I wander what it is now :)
Must be double.
But again I say stick to 1/35, its the best scale for modelling tanks.
Tamiyas range of products, together with Verlindens sets cant be beat!

I'm not going into it so deep....just want to have some fun...

First some easy modelling, I'll see how it goes...

the models can't be too big, haven't got alot of free space in my house

I do want to put the model on a small plate with some trees, stones etc without again...trying to go into overkill

Have a look at tamiyas on line cataloque.
You know which tanks arent that big :)

The german early war MKIII or the French 1 Bis tank are very nice models.
btw You saw the models I have :)
There are many techniques you can use to create stuff yourself.
Bandage for wounds is great material to create camouflage netting.
Aluminium foliage is very usefull to create tents and stuff.
With clay you can create walls,stones or bricktiles.

A 1/35 scale King Tiger should be about a foot long and about 6 inches high. Not all that big but large enough to be able to put in plenty of detail and be able to see and enjoy it.

Also, there is a huge amount of support for that scale. For one of your first efforts I would start with Dragon's models. They aren't as expensive as Tamiya's and they are of comparable quality. They have loads of figures and accessories as well. But of course you can use any companies accessories when doing your diorama.

Good luck with that.

Good Hunting.

MR

As soon as we have bought a new camera..... I will make pictures of my models.

ok, I'll stick to 1/35 then....I would like to build an 'Ardennes' diorama...

Dioramas can get as detailed as you want and can evolve to where the rest of the diorama is more detailed than the model.

There are lots of premade buildings and rubble, signs, cobblestones...etc. to use. Or you can make them yourself from scratch. Then there are the detailing accessories such as gas/water cans (water cans have a white cross hand painted on them), people, animals, tools, shells, etc...

The two choices are between what you want to pay and how much work you want to do.

The rest is available at any level of complexity you want.

Good Hunting.

MR

Koen,
  Stoffel and Mad Russian are right on for scale.  You definitely want to run the 1/35th scale.  There is so much available, and you can detail to your hearts content.  There are so many common, everyday things you can use for details in 1/35th.  If you go to some of the online diorama sites, like www.armorama.com (http://www.armorama.com), or Wiking's Panzermodellbau at www.panzermodellbau.com (http://www.panzermodellbau.com), you can get some really great ideas of how to set things up and arrange them for maximum display interest.  I go there from time to time to get fired up again about the hobby.

  If you are limited in space to display things, you can easily put together a King Tiger on a display base, run in some large fir trees covered with a heavy coating of hoar frost, and add in some figures wearing winter anoraks for added interest.  Then you make the road/trail/field "wet" with a mix of snow, mud, and ice.  Use a foam base, and you can build in ditches along the road for elevation changes. 

  Yeah, I get excited just thinking about the planning, let alone the detailing.  I had some pretty nice dioramas before I had to move.  Dismantled them and now have no space.  Ah, but someday.....

                                Heinrich505

Check out this one  :D : 250lbs, gas engine powered, iron cast, I just *love* the sound of the gun (0:27 ff):

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=54f_1234055035 (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=54f_1234055035)

Rattler

That looks like a generic camo pattern to me. I can't remember ever seeing a picture of a KT with that pattern on it.

I have several books that cover the KT. Would you want to see what some of the camo patterns of the time look like? Or are you really liking this one?

Good Hunting.

MR

I like this one but I would prefer a historical correct Ardennes winter '44 pattern

1 platoon grenadiers?
How big do you want the diorama to be ? :)
A platoon covers normally 100 square meters, if you want it to fit on a small baseplate than I suggest to stick with a squad.
Tamiyas panzergrenadierset or German soldiers at rest(winter/autumn gear) is great!

well, at least you know what I mean....

1 KT, 1lieutenant, 5-10 men, bricks, trees, all having a smoke-break  ;)

These are the units I meant Koen,

Panzergrenadiers, perfect for placement on tanks.

(http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/list/35mm_img/35061m.jpg)

and this one, soldiers at rest, perfect for Ardennes diorama!

(http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/list/35mm_img/35212m.jpg)

henk

(http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/list/35mm_img/35212m.jpg)
very nice!  except for the stove  ;)

Tamiya Mil 1/35 (http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/list/35mm/kit35001.htm) (link)

KT Ardennes link (http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/35252king_tiger/king_tiger.htm)
(http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/35252king_tiger/king_tiger.jpg)(http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/35252king_tiger/king_tiger1.jpg)
(http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/35252king_tiger/king_tiger3.jpg)

(http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/list/35mm_img/35186m.jpg)

(http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/list/35mm_img/35213m.jpg)

these could make a good set, ofcourse covered with snow & mud

Dont forget to check for Francois Verlindens tip on facial painting.
He uses oil paints instead of enamel.
It takes some practice but, worth the efforts!

THIS (http://www.maltamodellers.org/peiper.htm) is what I mean  :P

(http://www.maltamodellers.org/images/peiper/all.jpg)

(http://www.maltamodellers.org/images/peiper/kw.jpg)

(http://www.maltamodellers.org/images/peiper/fig.jpg)

Koen,
  Well, of course you'd go for the first class ace level.  What an amazing diorama.  It didn't catch at first that this was 1/16 scale, but when I saw the incredible details in the figures faces, it hit me.  Yep, this thing is huge, 3 feet by 2 feet.  This would be a dream diorama, that's for sure.

  As an aside, I have personally laid hands on the King Tiger displayed in that diorama, as I've been by Aberdeen Proving Grounds in Maryland, where it is located.  Still, my favorites were the Jagdpanther and the Sturmgeschütz III.   

  Koen, you are going to have to keep us posted when you start your project.  We will need pictures!!

            Heinrich505

The one thing I note in that diorama is that not everybody is wearing winter weather clothes. I would do some heavy research into that. Those in the Panzer Grey look out of place against the heavily clothed infantry.

Good Hunting.

MR

that is a thing I've seen in more dioramas...the whole place covered in snow and mud....except for the units and tank(s)

my diorama will be dirty...

tanks will be heavy covered with snow, dirt and mud and IN the ground...60 tons on snowy grounds?...it sinks!

I've also been to Aberdeen Proving Grounds in Maryland, the Tiger I was in Germany being refurbished but the rest were interesting. I think I have digital pictures of the tanks. I'll have to look in my photo archive.....also been to the artillery park at Ft. Sill Oklahoma. Was stationed there for awhile too.

The Patton Museum in Kentucky is good too. They have a King Tiger as well.

Pictures of tanks and AFV's in German in the mid 70's by the box full in the garage too.

You want to be careful when you build a diorama using figures to have them all match. Don't grab a set of summer dressed figures to put in your winter diorama. Look at the way the schwimmwagen driver is dressed compared to the rest. Why is that? He's with the same unit. More than likely in the exact same company.


Answer: He's from another kit and doesn't match. Not good....

Good Hunting.

MR

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/AcoolVW/diverse/dragonkingtiger_csewell.jpg)
is this one correct?

Here is a link I found for King Tigers in the Ardennes:

King Tigers in the Ardennes (http://www.ss501panzer.com/)


There was one color drawing I saw. I'll look for some more this weekend.


Some comments on the camouflage used for KT's....

Crews applying field camouflage. A pattern of red brown and dark green over a yellow base was common. Beginning in February 1944, camouflage was done at the factory, and by November 1944, it was altered to a base dark green with red brown and dark yellow pattern.

 King Tiger Photo Gallery (http://www.worldwar2aces.com/photo.htm)

Good Hunting.

MR

(http://www.ss501panzer.com/Tiger2_332JodyHarmon.jpg)
Tiger II number 332 of s. SS-Pz.Abt. 501 crosses the border into Belgium at the beginning of the offensive (courtesy of the artist, Jody Harmon)

Was on a cross country trip after my second season in a fire tower, oh what I got to see...

Aberdeen Proving Grounds *raises hand* me too!
Custer's Battlefield at the Little BigHorn
Gettysburg
Vietnam Memorial (1st visit, all but landscaping done)
Air & Space Museum
Bull Run
Fredricksburg
Chancellorsville
Wilderness
Spotsylvania
Petersburg
Bentonville
Lookout Mountain
Missionary Ridge
Chickamauga
Vicksburg

What a long strange trip that was. Though where the pics are is a whole 'nother adventure...

ays,

J

So, did you make the dio?

no, I haven't got the space....when you start something up like this you should have a place where it can stay without moving all the time....

The first group of PG's you show are no good for the Ardennes Henk. They have summer uniforms. The Ardennes was COLD. I would use only infantry in winter clothing for a diorama centered in that campaign.

Good Hunting.

MR