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Author Topic: Editor: Reichstag CMBB  (Read 6619 times)
Koen
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« on: 6 October 2009, 11:32:18 »
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ok, this is a scenario/map I worked on a long time ago.

I invested lots of hours in recreating a realistic map.

I will resume the work on the map and forces.

You are invited to comment on the map and forces and ofcourse any help is welcome!

* Koen-Reichstag.cme (28.66 KB - downloaded 325 times.)
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Heinrich505
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« Reply #1 on: 9 October 2009, 03:51:06 »
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Koen,
  Give me an idea of where the enemy is coming from.  I looked at the map and it is quite interesting.  I've never seen someone try to represent one of those practically invincible flak turm before.  I think you might have done that quite well.

  I would be taking the German side with the AI handling the Allied, but I need some more details on where the threat is coming from.  Or is it even ready to play yet?  Did you just want comments on the map?  I only saw one flage over by the Moltke Bridge.  No flags for the Reichstag?  Sorry for all the questions.  I like the look of it so far.

                                   Heinrich505
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Koen
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« Reply #2 on: 9 October 2009, 06:18:27 »
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Koen,
  Give me an idea of where the enemy is coming from.  I looked at the map and it is quite interesting.  I've never seen someone try to represent one of those practically invincible flak turm before.  I think you might have done that quite well.

  I would be taking the German side with the AI handling the Allied, but I need some more details on where the threat is coming from.  Or is it even ready to play yet?  Did you just want comments on the map?  I only saw one flage over by the Moltke Bridge.  No flags for the Reichstag?  Sorry for all the questions.  I like the look of it so far.

                                   Heinrich505


when a scenario gets posted its 'editor', 'playtest' or such a title, editor means NOT ready but available for comments on map/idea/forces.

in this one the Russians are coming from the Moltke brücke direction,notice that the FlaKturm has LOS at that bridge

I'm now testing the artillery and rockets from the Russians, the idea is that there are rules in this game.

One rule will be that a certain amount of Russian MUST be given their pre-strike orders in turn1 with each spotter having his TRP.

Another idea is to do turn1 myself and saving it as a toruneyfile, this way I can give the players a map with destruction and smoke...

Germans will be a mixture of ALL kinds of available forces, Heer, WSS,Marine, Volkssturm varying from conscript to elite....
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Heinrich505
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« Reply #3 on: 10 October 2009, 06:00:33 »
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Koen,
  Ah, okay, still in the construction phase.  Your mix of German forces is correct.  They were really a veritable hodge-podge of forces.  In the most recent book I read about Berlin, the Wehrmacht and SS men got a laugh about the Kriegsmarine troops.  The Navy men would repeat every order received, as their training on board ships required them to repeat their orders to make sure they understood the commands.  This was a source of amusement for the hardened Wehrmacht and SS men.  Unfortunately for the Navy men, they died like flies, not having the proper training to survive the hell of combat in Berlin.

  As for the artillery, it was mainly used to soften up the neighborhoods being assaulted.  Thus, your pre-set barrages would be historically correct.  Also, once they suffered their usual grievous losses while recklessly pushing into heavily defended areas, they would pull back and level the neighborhood with more rockets/artillery.

  The flak turm were extremely deadly, and whole Soviet tank units were decimated by the guns on the towers.

  I thought the map looked accurate.  There are some really good aerial shots in the book Bloody Streets: The Soviet Assault on Berlin, April 1945 by A. Stephan Hamilton, should you need further references.  Also, it is an amazing read about the battle, and had me spellbound throughout.  It is well worth picking up. 

                                                Heinrich505
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stoffel
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« Reply #4 on: 10 October 2009, 09:18:32 »
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Dont forget to include friendly losses Koen.
Whole Russian units were decimated by their own artillery to avoid certain units reaching the Reichstag before others could Knipoog
Recently reports were found that nearly 60.000 men died of own fire, specially Zjukov was found to be the one to have his artillery fire on the other armies.
The reports noted that this number could have been 1o times higher as well.
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My topics are about my personal opinion, my thoughts and what I think. They do not reflect the official opinion of the ministry of defense of the Netherlands.
Koen
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« Reply #5 on: 10 October 2009, 09:42:33 »
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Koen,
  Ah, okay, still in ...

  I thought the map looked accurate.  There are some really good aerial shots in the book Bloody Streets: The Soviet Assault on Berlin, April 1945 by A. Stephan Hamilton, should you need further references.  Also, it is an amazing read about the battle, and had me spellbound throughout.  It is well worth picking up. 

                                                Heinrich505


share that book with us in the 'book' board, this way other non-CM players will learn about it!
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Koen
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« Reply #6 on: 10 October 2009, 09:43:50 »
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Dont forget to include friendly losses Koen.
Whole Russian units were decimated by their own artillery to avoid certain units reaching the Reichstag before others could Knipoog
Recently reports were found that nearly 60.000 men died of own fire, specially Zjukov was found to be the one to have his artillery fire on the other armies.
The reports noted that this number could have been 1o times higher as well.


well,it's hard to avoid....when you see the damage the rockets make on the map...even with elite arty spotters they go wide...very wide...
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stoffel
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« Reply #7 on: 10 October 2009, 10:22:07 »
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Just use enough of the rockets and give tired, exhausted conscript rocket FO's, 1 for every square 200 meters Knipoog
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Koen
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« Reply #8 on: 10 October 2009, 21:15:42 »
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Just use enough of the rockets and give tired, exhausted conscript rocket FO's, 1 for every square 200 meters Knipoog


how the player MUST use the spotters will be ordered in the briefing

I'll number them and give the TRP's also numbers...

pre-strike: spotter 1 on TRP 1 etc...
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Mad Russian
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« Reply #9 on: 12 October 2009, 06:41:03 »
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I'm now testing the artillery and rockets from the Russians, the idea is that there are rules in this game.


Check my CMBB scenario HSG EW Black Pigs for the use of Katyusha's. It's a small scenario that uses Katyusha's and TRP's to get them to pretty much land where you intend. They have a HUGE area that they land in.

Quote
One rule will be that a certain amount of Russian MUST be given their pre-strike orders in turn1 with each spotter having his TRP.

Another idea is to do turn1 myself and saving it as a toruneyfile, this way I can give the players a map with destruction and smoke...


If you do turn one how do I get to do a setup? That's the same thing as doing the setup and locking in the units for both sides if you choose to go that way. Not saying you shouldn't depending on how you want it to play out. Most gamers won't like having so little choice in their starting positions.

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Germans will be a mixture of ALL kinds of available forces, Heer, WSS,Marine, Volkssturm varying from conscript to elite....


That doesn't sound historical. Not all those different types of units in a 2km x 2km square area.

Do you have a detailed OOB or are you just wanting to put a bunch of different unit types in the scenario?

I wouldn't think you would spend all that time on the map just to throw a bunch of non-historical units on it.

Good Hunting.

MR
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Koen
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« Reply #10 on: 12 October 2009, 18:05:50 »
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MR,

did you have a look on the map?

The map does include more than 2x2km I think, there are plenty of important locations on the map.

When you have historical correct info I'll use it.
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Mad Russian
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« Reply #11 on: 12 October 2009, 20:16:21 »
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MR,

When you have historical correct info I'll use it.


The historical correct info depends on two things Koen. Time and place. You have your place but what is the time of the battle you are wanting to do? Do you have a specific battle in mind to model? Or have you gotten that far?

Good Hunting.

MR
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Koen
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« Reply #12 on: 12 October 2009, 20:58:54 »
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MR,

When you have historical correct info I'll use it.



The historical correct info depends on two things Koen. Time and place. You have your place but what is the time of the battle you are wanting to do? Do you have a specific battle in mind to model? Or have you gotten that far?

Good Hunting.

MR



from the moment the first Russian tanks cross the Moltke bridge, so really the last days where alot of KG's are fighting....

I have more info but my PC is blocked....now on my laptop....sadly

http://www.nimcrown.org/berlin05c.htm

http://www.theeasternfront.co.uk/Battles/battlesberlin.htm

I have reports that state that there were several SS units active, expecially foreigners.
Heer was also present.
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Mad Russian
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« Reply #13 on: 12 October 2009, 23:15:50 »
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Can you get back to your PC or has it locked up and you lost all the information for good?

Good Hunting.

MR
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Koen
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« Reply #14 on: 13 October 2009, 18:29:34 »
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Can you get back to your PC or has it locked up and you lost all the information for good?

Good Hunting.

MR


don't think I lost if 'forever'....

it's just a f***-up....normally I make copies to my external Hard-Drive but it's not connected since I'm building a new PC....but this has been going on for over 2 months since my graphics card was a bad one and I'm waiting for a new one...1+1+1=f***ed!
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Mad Russian
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« Reply #15 on: 13 October 2009, 21:29:13 »
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Are you looking at doing an operation with this?

Good Hunting.

MR
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Koen
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« Reply #16 on: 13 October 2009, 21:36:15 »
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Are you looking at doing an operation with this?

Good Hunting.

MR


no, 1 long battle

the map is big enough for the Germans to have a good set-up and for reinforcements to deploy

the Russians will have plenty of armor etc but a limited size of entry so they'll loose a significant number of forces trying to get over Moltke bridge and secure their bridgehead...being the 1st part of the battle.

2nd part will be reinforcing the Russian forces after securing their bridgehead

3rd part the advancement and first engagements with reinforcements, bunkers, trenches etc

4th will see the German armor entering

5th close combat towards the Reichstag

ofcourse these plans will be changed/modified during the creation of this battle
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Mad Russian
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« Reply #17 on: 13 October 2009, 21:41:09 »
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That's a long time for the fighting to go on with no ammo reinforcement. A good number of your defenders will be out of ammo half way through what you just described.

Good Hunting.

MR
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Koen
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« Reply #18 on: 13 October 2009, 21:44:27 »
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That's a long time for the fighting to go on with no ammo reinforcement. A good number of your defenders will be out of ammo half way through what you just described.

Good Hunting.

MR


ah, ok, see what you mean...good point...maybe max ammo for the first line of defense and less for the 2nd-3rd line?

operation does solve that problem but designing and finding playtesters for operations only lead to sadness and demotivation...
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Mad Russian
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« Reply #19 on: 13 October 2009, 21:54:55 »
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That's a long time for the fighting to go on with no ammo reinforcement. A good number of your defenders will be out of ammo half way through what you just described.

Good Hunting.

MR


ah, ok, see what you mean...good point...maybe max ammo for the first line of defense and less for the 2nd-3rd line?


Full ammo for all unless you want them short of ammo.

Quote
operation does solve that problem but designing and finding playtesters for operations only lead to sadness and demotivation...


I don't think it solves your "big battle" problem at all. Operations set the new front lines from east to west on a map. IF your map is setup to have attackers moving east and west that's okay. If there are other options in the battle then operations get problematic.

Reinforcements arriving with fresh ammo loads is one way to keep the fighting going. It also replaces unit losses as well.

A huge scenario that is 70 turns long is no easier to get playtested in my experience than a 3 game operation that is 75 turns long. The bigger the battle, the less people that will both playest it/play it when it's finished.

Good Hunting.

MR
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