28 January 2022, 09:02:47 *

Login with username, password and session length
Welcome to War and Tactics!    War and Tactics Forum is currently undergoing some modifications that might disable features you are used to. This is unabvoidable as we have to update the forum engine to a new structure that is incompatible with many of the features we had used so far. The good news: WaT will be more secure and stable, and most of the features we uninstalled will be a natural part of the new structure anyway. For the rest we will be looking for solutions. (APR 23, 2018)
   
  Home   Forum   Help ! Forum Rules ! Search Calendar Donations Login Register Chat  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Share this topic on Del.icio.usShare this topic on DiggShare this topic on FacebookShare this topic on GoogleShare this topic on MySpaceShare this topic on RedditShare this topic on StumbleUponShare this topic on TechnoratiShare this topic on TwitterShare this topic on Yahoo
Author Topic: Banya pass - talk to me about it!  (Read 5350 times)
British Tommy
Private 1st class
*

Offline Offline

Wales

Location: Cardiff, UK
Posts: 18


View Profile
« on: 18 November 2008, 19:10:25 »
ReplyReply

***Please make your comments to this scenario and those in Round 1 in the scenario section...thanks...MR****

« Last Edit: 4 January 2009, 15:15:29 by Mad Russian » Logged
KG AirborneBob
Private 1st class
*

Offline Offline

United States

Location: Jackson, TN
Posts: 23




View Profile
« Reply #1 on: 19 November 2008, 00:10:05 »
ReplyReply

I played this as the Allied (Russian), and found that the onsluaght of enemy forces massed and overan me as my reinforcements were peicemealed into the fray....not too enjoyable from this aspect.
« Last Edit: 3 January 2009, 14:46:09 by Mad Russian » Logged
enzo_barracuda
Private


Offline Offline

Ireland, Republic of

Posts: 1


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: 19 November 2008, 01:02:37 »
ReplyReply

My main criticism is of the briefing for the Allied side. I planned a strategy based on my reading of the briefing and in restrospect, I now realize I misinterpreted it, as it is written in language that could be interpreted in more than one way. My ensuing actions, based on erronous conclusions, ultimately handicapped my performance. This is not an excuse, just an observation of the facts. Ultimately, it was my responsibility. These are the fortunes of war; commanders misread their orders in RL, too.

Let me explain futher:

The briefing tells the Soviet commander that:

"You have been ordered to move with all speed from Nadvornaya and defend the pass ... You have a small recon force defending the village of Banya. I have ordered them to stand fast until your forces reach them."

I realize now that this information is offered in a strategic sense, not a tactical sense. Since I erroneously read it as tactical information, I took the instructions literally, believing the town garrison was in immediate danger of attack, e.g. there would be an attack in the first couple of turns, which was obviously not the case, and that I need to relieve the garrison NOW! Like, on Turn 1.  Unfortunately, I formed a plan based on that faulty premise. The details are unimportant. Still, I nearly managed a draw.

Briefings, I understand, are a tricky business, with designers not wanting to give away too much or too little, while also attempting to craft something creative that improves the "flavor-text" of the given scenario. While the lines above are well-written and dramatic, perhaps they could be rewritten in such a way as to make it clearer that these are strategic directives, not tactical orders.

If I had read the briefing correctly, and manuevered accordingly, I think a draw or better would have been guaranteed. This is a pretty good, balanced scenario, otherwise. The matchup of fast-moving, turreted tanks against monster assault guns that  can turn suprisingly quick made for some tense armor skirmishes. The swarms of Hungarian infantry can be dealt with, if one parcels out HE shells in a rapid-reaction fashion and keyholes the halftracks and armored cars with a mind of strictly targeting infantry.The terrain, most of which I erroneously viewed as extraneous, I now see offers a variety of options for movement and organization of forces.

Certainly, based on my experience with this scenario, I would be most interested in trying out some of your other work.

Thanks and good luck to you!

Enzo
« Last Edit: 3 January 2009, 14:45:50 by Mad Russian » Logged
British Tommy
Private 1st class
*

Offline Offline

Wales

Location: Cardiff, UK
Posts: 18


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: 19 November 2008, 19:22:42 »
ReplyReply

I played this as the Allied (Russian), and found that the onsluaght of enemy forces massed and overan me as my reinforcements were peicemealed into the fray....not too enjoyable from this aspect.


Hi KGAirborneBob,
Thanks for taking the time to reply. Hmm, sounds like your opponent rushed everything into the pass? The T34's were found to be quite powerful in the play tests which is why there's only one on the map at the start of the battle. There was really only one bit of Hungarian armour that the T34's didn't like and that was the SP guns. As soon as the T34's spotted them, they usually backed away (very frustrating!) but the SP guns can be killed on the flanks, using the speed of the T34's to outmaneuver them.
« Last Edit: 3 January 2009, 14:46:35 by Mad Russian » Logged
British Tommy
Private 1st class
*

Offline Offline

Wales

Location: Cardiff, UK
Posts: 18


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: 19 November 2008, 19:36:04 »
ReplyReply

Hi Enzo,
Many thanks for your reply and well written comments on the briefing. I will certainly take another look at the Russian briefing to clear up any confusion.
Very pleased to hear you liked the map and mix of forces. You will find my other scenario's over at the SDII or I have two at the Blitz H2H section and I hope you will enjoy playing them  Smiley



Logged
von Staudt
Sergeant
*

Offline Offline

Location: Houston, Texas USA
Posts: 45


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: 3 January 2009, 16:46:46 »
ReplyReply

I enjoyed the scenario a lot.  I managed, as the Russians, to get a draw, but it was a lot of work!

The terrain was a big player in this one.  My opponent (Jimbo) was very good at using it and I ran into several costly ambushes.  This tactic really slowed me down and the game came down to the wire.

Those SP's are nasty!  One shot, one dead T-34!   :'(

I read the briefing the same as barracuda and hauled ass for the town, but the Hungarians took your advice and hauled ass too, so my initial assault ran into a buzz saw.  In retrospect, I would not be so rash next time.  It is easier to retake the town than to try to defend it from an aggressive opponent.

Overall, a very nice scenario.  It was balanced and had terrain that allowed a lot of innovative tactics.
Logged

***von Staudt***
TedRam1
Private


Offline Offline

United States

Location: Blue Point, New York
Posts: 11


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: 3 January 2009, 17:28:26 »
ReplyReply

I played this as the Allied (Russian), and found that the onsluaght of enemy forces massed and overan me as my reinforcements were peicemealed into the fray....not too enjoyable from this aspect.


Hi KGAirborneBob,
Thanks for taking the time to reply. Hmm, sounds like your opponent rushed everything into the pass? The T34's were found to be quite powerful in the play tests which is why there's only one on the map at the start of the battle. There was really only one bit of Hungarian armour that the T34's didn't like and that was the SP guns. As soon as the T34's spotted them, they usually backed away (very frustrating!) but the SP guns can be killed on the flanks, using the speed of the T34's to outmaneuver them.



Yes, I took the briefing to heart and rushed as fast as I could in to the town.

I transferred infantry from the trucks and placed them on the tanks and charged up and over the ridge in four locations.
I also swept around the left on the road using tanks and infantry in trucks. Using the armored cars to speed ahead I discovered no one at the small flag so I advanced armor to the ridge to the side and rear of the town.
As my troops were slowly moving through the rough on the ridge and setting up overwatch on the town the Soviets were receiving reinforcements which were being routed while they were in or just dismounting from their trucks. It seemed some reached cover but the mass of HE from the tanks especially the SP’s routed them too.
This was about the same time the tanks broke out of the rough on top of the ridge and with the infantry and the SP and 75mm tanks in overwatch the 40mm tanks charged right to the buildings in the town, point blank to the Soviet infantry.
The T34 came out from behind a building and knocked out 2 of the 40mm tanks but while that was happening, using the buildings as cover and again taking the briefing to heart, I charged all of my armor except the SP’s in to the town surrounding the T34. While using the shoot and scoot command from behind the building I was lucky enough to immobilize the T34 and then take it out with a rear shot from an SP on the ridges to the side and rear of town.
At that point, with the town pretty much surrounded by armor and using half my infantry to assault and the other half along with the SP’s as over watch any Soviet infantry that fired was quickly targeted, pinned, routed or killed. I took almost 40 prisoners, including a couple of full squads and the rest were eliminated.
By turn 10 the town was completely taken.
That’s when the first T34’s started to arrive.
I had one SP covering the gap in the woods entering the town and one 75mm high up on the western flank. Three T34’s pushed forward two targeting the 75mm on the flank knocking it out. But while doing this the SP knocked out one T34 and then a third T34 that was moving up. Here I was very fortunate in that the SP took several hits with the last hit only shocking it.
By the end of turn 11 I had the gap entering the town covered in a semi-circle and at that point the Soviet was in dire straights.
Any infantry moving up were quickly routed as they had little cover to approach the south end of the town and any T34’s that came through the gap were targeted by the three SP’s to the front and a host of 75mm and 40mm tanks from the flanks.

I have to say I was very lucky that:
1) Not one tank was immobilized due to terrain.
2) The SP’s took several hits and were not knocked out or immobilized.
3) When the SP’s knocked out a T34 they were quickly abandoned saving the SP’s AP ammo which by the end was nearly depleted.

As far as Allied reinforcements go it’s a tough call.
If the Axis does not hold the town by turn 10 it would be very difficult to take after that.
If the Allies get more reinforcements in one shot instead of being spread out the Axis with only 3 SP’s and little else as far as being able to stop the T34’s could easily be overwhelmed.

I would be hard pressed to tell what, if anything should be changed in this scenario.

In looking at the results the scores seem to swing both ways with a few in the middle.
I would like to hear from the Allied winners on how they did so well.

So it seems to me that it could go either way depending on a few breaks from the gods of war, the aggressiveness of the Axis and/or the patience of the Allies.
« Last Edit: 3 January 2009, 19:19:44 by Koen » Logged
Stndrtnfhr
Private


Offline Offline

United States

Posts: 10


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: 4 January 2009, 07:57:23 »
ReplyReply

I played this one as the Reds, and had a blast, literally.  I was fortunate and was able to catch my opponent's flanking attack as the Turans were coming out of some scattered trees.  The terrain slowed his tanks and they came out piecemeal.  The two T-34s were able to hold them off until reinforcements arrived and then I was able to just about clear the battlefield. 

My tanks never backed down when facing the assault guns, and while I lost two, the rest took their revenge.  This is an excellent scenario with a lot of replayability.  Well done.

Regards
Stndrtnfhr
Logged
Mad Russian
Guest

« Reply #8 on: 4 January 2009, 15:15:56 »
ReplyReply

***Please make your comments to this scenario and those in Round 1 in the scenario section...thanks...MR****
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Unique Hits: 38365469 | Sitemap
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.16 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!


Google visited last this page 14 January 2022, 04:02:09