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Author Topic: Who can tell me more?  (Read 7413 times)
Koen
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« on: 21 March 2009, 21:34:02 »
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FACman
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« Reply #1 on: 22 March 2009, 22:01:57 »
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At first glance...
My money is on Italian minesweepers with funny boots...j/k

Definitely new age mine detection equipment. In that the boots are meant to disperse the weight of the guys operating the regular detection gear, thereby lessening the chance of detonating AP mines. If I remember my training, one of these two, should be a distance behind in his lane, to avoid losing both to one detonation.  What is the source of the pic?

ays,

J
« Last Edit: 22 March 2009, 22:57:52 by FACman » Logged

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stoffel
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« Reply #2 on: 23 March 2009, 09:13:26 »
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Judging the color of the uniform and the weapon in combination with the belt , Id say those are Israeli soldiers.
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Koen
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« Reply #3 on: 23 March 2009, 12:57:48 »
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What is the source of the pic?


the internet  Grijns , found it on a forum with funny pics...
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Mad Russian
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« Reply #4 on: 23 March 2009, 22:45:31 »
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The large pads on their boots is not meant to protect them against AT mines. Normally the pressure setting for AT mines is at 300 pounds or over. If you lay an AT mine you don't want a soldier on foot setting it off.

Normally the pressure for AP mines is very low. It would depend on the trigger mechanism. Pressure only should have those pads be pretty effective.

That would possibly allow the detector gear the ability to detect them and remove them. However, my biggest concern is why are the pads needed?

If they engineer troops can't detect the mines BEFORE they detonate them then what value is them passing over them and leaving them for the following infantry units?

As a combat engineer our job was to clear a path through the mines for the following troops. Not just have me walk over them without detonating them.

That picture doesn't make any, real situation value, sense to me.

Good Hunting.

MR

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« Reply #5 on: 24 March 2009, 01:16:02 »
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MR asks:
Quote
if the engineer troops can't detect the mines BEFORE they detonate them then what value is them passing over them and leaving them for the following infantry units?


FM sez:
Quote
...the boots are meant to disperse the weight of the guys operating the regular detection gear, thereby lessening the chance of detonating AP mines.


I suspect, concern for non-mag AP mines guarding the AT mines. once AT mines are neutralized in the lane, Any heavy piece of armor should be able to clear the lane for infantry.

MR sez:
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That picture doesn't make any, real situation value, sense to me.


Might be some trials for new gear, or a training setting, as Ive not read any articles on their actual use, yet..

My guesses anyway.

ays,

J
« Last Edit: 24 March 2009, 01:23:43 by FACman » Logged

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Mad Russian
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« Reply #6 on: 24 March 2009, 02:08:14 »
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Non-magnetic AP mines are found and cleared through probing. Not walking around with pads on your feet.

The ones we had were very small and olive drab in color. They would be easy to spot in that terrain by their color. burying them deeper than say 1-3 inches would greatly diminish their effects.

Good Hunting.

MR
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« Reply #7 on: 24 March 2009, 04:23:48 »
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MR sez:
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Non-magnetic AP mines are found and cleared through probing


This may well be, someones idea of a different way to skin a cat. I could see a tactical situation where speed is essential, therefore all AP mines are bypassed (with the aid of these pads), for the heavys to detonate with little risk to personnel. As you know, depending on circumstances, taking the time to probe the lanes, isn't always feasible, when you've a tight time line for completion of the mission.
My money is on a testing/training environment. Because, I sure hope someone is attempting to improve the methods of dealing with the bastards.

ays,

J
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« Reply #8 on: 24 March 2009, 21:43:13 »
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My money is on a testing/training environment. Because, I sure hope someone is attempting to improve the methods of dealing with the bastards.


My idea also, speed crossing mine lanes in a training/demonstration environment (still, the guys should not be as close to each other; OTOH this might be well an optical illusion for using a long tele lens by the photographer, in this case they could physically be more than 8 mtrs apart photographed from more than 200 mtrs away but appear closer due to so-called "compression"; actually the small depth-of-field at good light makes such an interpretation well probable), the source should help to refine it down.

Quote
“A telephoto lens not only magnifies the subject, but it also tends to
compress perspective and provides a sufficiently narrow angle of view to
isolate a single building, provided you have sufficient altitude or you
remain at a given altitude but shoot relatively far away from the
building. The perspective compression characteristic of a telephoto lens
makes distant background objects appear closer to your subject and in a
more similar scale.“

“Simply put, a telephoto lens "brings subjects closer", while a wide
angle lens seems to make subjects appear further away than they
actually are. The result is a compressed and expanded perspective,
respectively.”

“Telephotos are great for picking out interesting details from a
landscape, such as natural textures and patterns to produce semi-
abstract images. They also inherently compress perspective so things in
the distance look closer than they actually are.”


(NOTE that in above citation the "distant" object would always be the sold some mtrs ahead of the other as we are thinking relatively here; I will edit again if find a visually clear example. ALSO NOTE that the perspective solely depends on camera position and not the lens chosen, but of cause you - when farther away- chose the longer lens to have your subject frame-filling, hence the linguistical shortcut...)

Rattler
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« Reply #9 on: 24 March 2009, 21:55:02 »
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EDIT for (and adding to) above post:

Now found an example for what I am talking about:

The 2nd of those pics shows the compression effect (buiilding and statue seem much closer to each other as in #1, even the statue gets flatter with the effect that the face angles seem different), also note the reduced depth of field:





This could explain the soldiers appearing so close to each other (and is my educated guess, actually)

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« Reply #10 on: 24 March 2009, 22:01:27 »
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been looking at the picture for some time now and I'm starting to believe that it's a miniatures set-up....

look at both left hands...
see how short the are is where the picture is focused...

could be wrong but something seems to be wrong
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« Reply #11 on: 24 March 2009, 22:03:56 »
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Koen,

I think you got it. Congrats.

Explains everythig said so far.

Rattler
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« Reply #12 on: 25 March 2009, 01:27:00 »
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Would compression effect alter shadows, to make the soldier on lefts shadow fall upon the other soldier even if he is some distance ahead?

J
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« Reply #13 on: 25 March 2009, 07:20:52 »
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no, of cause. That is why miniatures makes so much sense.

Rattler
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« Reply #14 on: 25 March 2009, 19:00:57 »
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I have asked my friend in the IDf if he knows anything about this picture, what its supposed to be at least Smiley
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« Reply #15 on: 26 March 2009, 16:30:08 »
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well, I was right, they are Israeli soldiers engineers.
The shoes are like sponges, he did not really know how they work but he will ask his friend who is an engineer Smiley
Basic idea is that the shoes make a soldier really light, so a mine cant explode by pressure.
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« Reply #16 on: 26 March 2009, 21:28:27 »
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well, I was right, they are Israeli soldiers engineers.
The shoes are like sponges, he did not really know how they work but he will ask his friend who is an engineer Smiley
Basic idea is that the shoes make a soldier really light, so a mine cant explode by pressure.


Did you specifically ask them why they were so close to each other (shadow)?

My take still: Miniature.

I look forward to your IDF comrades comments to this statement.

Rattler
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« Reply #17 on: 27 March 2009, 13:04:01 »
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I dont know if these are miniatures or real man.
All I do know no that this depicts Israeli engineers looking for AP mines.
The equipment you see is real.

He is on exercise now so I think I hear it next week Smiley
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« Reply #18 on: 5 April 2009, 10:10:06 »
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The Dutch army also bought this stuff Smiley

They are in fact small hoovercrafts, large square bodies filled with air.
The shoe adapts itself to the relief in the ground.
The pressure of the body is divided evenly across the shoes, reducing the chance for mines to detonate.
It also offers some protection for the wearer.
I saw several pictures in the armies newspaper, and indeed the man walk next to eachother with about 1 meter of space between them.
5 years ago they were used first, not to detect mines but to get out of a detected minefield fast.

Facts and data:

5 aircussins per shoe.
The cover is als resistant against salt water.
Size: 140 x 350x 700 mm
Weight: 2,6 kg per shoe
Volume: 25 liters
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« Reply #19 on: 5 April 2009, 11:29:30 »
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Assuming you are right, still the mystery of the pic is not solved:

I count 27 compartments (28 minus the one cut off at the edge), how would this make for 5 compartments in the structure depicted?

Together with the strange depth-of-field seen in the pictures and alerted by Koen I would still vote "miniatures"?

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