NCO Club: Off Topic Discussions => The Lounge - Get A Beer & Just Chatter Away => Topic started by: Jilly on 21 November 2009, 20:45:18



Title: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Jilly on 21 November 2009, 20:45:18
Anything interesting happening right now in your neck of the woods?  It doesn't have to be Military related.  


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Jilly on 21 November 2009, 20:48:46
It rains a lot in Western Canada.  And lately there has been severe flooding in  Vancouver Island.  One of the reasons I moved away from that area,  way too wet and rainy.

Link:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2009/11/20/bc-flooding-cowichan-valley-duncan.html (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2009/11/20/bc-flooding-cowichan-valley-duncan.html)



Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Rattler on 21 November 2009, 22:21:49
We have our hands full:

- major crisis that we will come out last (40% unemployed here on the island with resulting rise in burglary, robbrery, etc.). Lost all my jobs within the last 2 month, no unemployment payment here.

- pirates issue after the guys from the ALKRANA have been liberated: 20 weeddings in Somalia apparantly paid by Spanish state (pirates made 4 millions+).

- 126 new corruption cases this year, 80 top politicians involved, total pirated money 4000.000.000 Euros (4000 Millions), talk pirates in Somalia again...

- A-Flu epedemic now with over 50.000 new cases weekly, 1115 dead so far, expected to rise exponentially...

- Rattler is running a MBX which is stressful on participants and is colliding with his planed long absence going AFRICA.

- Rattlers girlfriends all left him recently for some reason, the words "Africa" and "MBX" have been mentioned...

Everything else way in the green, the weather is too good to be true for November, but we have sunglasses and soon a new (old) car and hence are ready for a mission of God.

Rattler


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Koen on 21 November 2009, 22:25:58
latest news from Belgium?

our prime-minister has been elected first European president...good job...BUT...this means that the old prime-minister who f**cked up very bad will become the new prime minister....it's so stupid it's hilarious....we're in the middle of dividing Belgium in 2...he was removed because he made a mess of it and now he returns....F**K...what's wrong with this country????????


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Jilly on 21 November 2009, 22:44:02
That doesn't sound like too good a situation, Koen. 

Regarding Chinese torture,  everyone is disgusted with it, as well as many other basic human rights that are not followed in that country. Like child labor,  a little while ago,  there was the scandal of tainted baby formula where some  babies died.  It's not a place to be or live, for sure.  There are still dire poor in the country, although some are now quite wealthy too.

Rattler -

40% unemployment is very high on your Island.  Tell me,  how does it compare to the rest of Spain,  what are the unemployment figures in mainland Spain?

50,000 flu cases weekly?  What area does that cover?  Do you mean world wide?

What is MBX and why does it collide with going to Africa?

How many girlfriends do you have and why have they left?   :-\

The weather here has been good too,  I love it.


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Koen on 21 November 2009, 22:51:51
about the flu...

the name of the flu has been changed from PIG flu to Mexican flu in 2008 since the Jewish people were offended...latest report from Mexico...PLZ change the name....tourism has dropped to panic status since people are afraid to come to Mexico....

hilarious...


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Jilly on 21 November 2009, 22:58:23
Yes,  it's ridiculous.  Political Correctness gone crazy.

Have you had your vaccination yet?  I've decided not to have one.  The vaccine is too new for me to trust,  especially when it comes to giving it to my kids.    Just have to see how things go...


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Koen on 21 November 2009, 23:02:26
Yes,  it's ridiculous.  Political Correctness gone crazy.

Have you had your vaccination yet?  I've decided not to have one.  The vaccine is too new for me to trust,  especially when it comes to giving it to my kids.    Just have to see how things go...


no, no vaccination for me...I'm old fashion in medication...first I want to give my body a chance to deal with the problem...on its own...


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Mike on 22 November 2009, 00:54:06
I got the vaccination, but as a nursing student it was not really a choice ;)


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Jilly on 22 November 2009, 13:33:27
It's the same here, Mike.  All the health care people have to have it regardless.


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Mike on 22 November 2009, 18:37:51
yeah, and i did not get sick from it  :D

did you feel anything?


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Rattler on 22 November 2009, 20:08:08
vaccination for me, but as we are the Ass of Europe (or is it Portugal?) I have to wait another 8 weeks before its avilable...

Rattler


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Jilly on 22 November 2009, 22:39:06
Mike,  I haven't had the shot,  and I don't really want it.  I'm much like Koen,  I'm very cautious as what I put in my body.  There's been too many vaccinations in the past, that weren't tested properly or long enough and were later found to give all sorts of problems.

Rattler,  Ass of Europe?  I thought you liked Spain.


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Mike on 22 November 2009, 22:52:09
okay, lol and rattler Spain is not the ass of europe, its a nice sunny place. Not like Belgium were its all dark and rain at the moment :s


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Koen on 23 November 2009, 18:38:26
okay, lol and rattler Spain is not the ass of europe, its a nice sunny place. Not like Belgium were its all dark and rain at the moment :s


yeah, autumn has finally arrived and everybody starts complaining...why? it's quite normal that it rains these times...

for me the new/old prime minister in Belgium keeps me annoying....damn...politics are so easy....you get a job....you f*** it up...you get another job....and then you return to the first job....the one you f**** up before  hdbng hdbng hdbng


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Tanker on 23 November 2009, 19:14:29
I think the fear of vaccinations, especially the ones for children is over hyped.  There are risks in every thing we do daily.  If you just look at odds though, the risks from the diseases are far greater than the risks from the vaccinations.  The H1N1 vaccine was made exactly the same way as the seasonal flu vaccine.  As far as I know there have been no adverse effects from it.  Has anyone heard differently?


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Jilly on 23 November 2009, 19:17:34
Funnily enough, I just spoke to someone at the clinic,  and they are giving shots to the kids at the local high school Dec 8.  My two older boys refuse to have it done.  My 10 years old....not sure, if I want him to have it or not, still have to think about it.


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: FACman on 23 November 2009, 22:36:39
I may be wrong, but I think the young are especially prone to H1N1. A great many of the fatalities seem to be children. I heard somewhere that the reason older folks aren't affected by it as much is because we have antibodies from a similar strain that passed through many years ago. You'll have to check me on that, as I rate it only a rumor at this time. Still I'd not gamble with my kids life as he has never gotten sick from any inoculations in the past. My money is with Tanker on this one.


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Rattler on 24 November 2009, 00:44:13
.. and mine.

Had a flu once, you´re better off risk wise (I had one in the ´80s and as a fairly fit young man I thought I would die then, won´t want to got through that one again now with chronical bronchitis and 25 yrs later, my guess is I wouldn´t make it through), but if you never had one and are below 35, vaccinate would be my bet.

Rattler


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Rattler on 24 November 2009, 01:03:20
Rattler -


woohoo !!!, a wave of questions, and all in half a post  hatsoff, lets see:

40% unemployment is very high on your Island.  Tell me,  how does it compare to the rest of Spain,  what are the unemployment figures in mainland Spain?

IIRC atm Spain has an overall rate of 19.3% unemployment, doubling the average in the Euro Zone. Here on the island we are now even worse off because tourism with it´s season til OCT is a major factor of economy.

50,000 flu cases weekly?  What area does that cover?  Do you mean world wide?

We currently (it has risen significantly again since I wrote that msg) *in Spain* have a weekly - NOV 8 to 14 - Swine Flu new case rate of 155.000 average (still rising). Spain, not the world.

115 dead so far. The infection rate has now reached 390 of 100.000 persons, the week before it was 320. http://www.publico.es/espana/271187/gripe/cobra/espana/vida/personas (http://www.publico.es/espana/271187/gripe/cobra/espana/vida/personas) Enter this URL into the translator for reading it in English: http://translate.google.com/?hl=es# (http://translate.google.com/?hl=es#)

What is MBX and why does it collide with going to Africa?

ad 1): http://www.warandtactics.com/smf/games-reviewspreviews-general-discussions/mbx-faq-and-overview/ (http://www.warandtactics.com/smf/games-reviewspreviews-general-discussions/mbx-faq-and-overview/)

ad 2): http://www.warandtactics.com/smf/games-reviewspreviews-general-discussions/attn-wargamers-training-mbx/ (http://www.warandtactics.com/smf/games-reviewspreviews-general-discussions/attn-wargamers-training-mbx/)

How many girlfriends do you have and why have they left?   :-\

I have  lost count over the decades, really, remember I am over 50... :)

They usually leave for the same reasons which I will gladly explain in private one day...  :whistle:

Rattler


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Rattler on 24 November 2009, 01:22:54
Rattler,  Ass of Europe?  I thought you liked Spain.

One does not contradict the other.

Here, everything comes later than in the rest of Europe (at least, on this Island, but my take is that it tis general):

We were the last to fall into crisis, we are the last that will come out (according to EU and IWF); Everybody now In Germany got 12 MB cable minimum, we got 3-6 max depening on region, a new law just has been proposed that wil guarantee 1 MB by 2015 (!) for every citizen..., just as examples.

So, now we are the last to gt vaccine...

OTOH, that´s why I am here, because also the downsides of modern life are the last to appear here... :)

So, yes, I am here because I *love* Spain and this attitude: Slower, from my POV = better.

Rattler


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Jilly on 24 November 2009, 13:04:48
I've decided to let him have the shot on the 8th Dec.  Sorted.



Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: sky2979 on 4 December 2009, 22:50:08
Our current president sucks.........lol


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Rattler on 4 December 2009, 23:32:33
Our current president sucks.........lol

Here our views definitely differ...  :congrats:  I wonder what you would do if you ever played one of the international MBXes (I found myself doing real strange things out of obligation and getting pulled along, and this as a guy with fairly well solidly based moral and ethic values...).

Also here, slower, from my POV = better: http://www.warandtactics.com/smf/the-lounge-get-a-beer-go-off-topic/the-omnipresent-currently-playing-%28music%29-thread/msg10208/#msg10208 (http://www.warandtactics.com/smf/the-lounge-get-a-beer-go-off-topic/the-omnipresent-currently-playing-%28music%29-thread/msg10208/#msg10208)

JFTR, and as everybody I know does not seem to believe me, you won´t ever get to know a slower person than me, though...  hihi

Rattler


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: sky2979 on 5 December 2009, 06:59:48
Our current president sucks.........lol

Here our views definitely differ...  :congrats:  I
Rattler



LOL,,,,Cielo that is because you dont live here in the USA....this current president is really jacking things up in our country and..you'll see he will too around the globe.......hes a chavez supporter....sigh...besos...


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: FACman on 5 December 2009, 12:24:50
I live in the US and disagree with you as well. After 8 years of that guy from Texas & his buddy from Wyoming running the show, starting 2 wars and not budgeting for either of them, the current Pres inherited an economy that was near ruin. Had you complained about the last regime mayhaps we wouldnt be where we are now, but that is hindsight, we must deal with what we have on our plate now. He's been in office for 8 months and all I hear from the right is negative, how about we work together as Americans and solve our problems. The Republicans lost the last election as the American people thought this guy would do a better job. How about we give him our support so that he might be successful for all Americans. Chavez is a tin pot dictator who will get his in the end no matter who befriends him, besides how do you know that the Pres isnt using his intellect to disarm Chavez? I say wait and see, running around the world like cowboys sure hasnt worked, time to try a different style. Remember, elections have consequences.


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Mad Russian on 5 December 2009, 15:44:00
I too don't like the landscape.

Unlike your last post though FACman I'm not all about the "Lay The Blame on Bush."

The Republicans can play that game too. Clinton was offered Bin Laden and sent a couple cruise missile calling cards after they declared war on us.

Talk about having things laid on  your doorstep, I don't remember Bush asking for 9/11. What kind of President would he have been without that? Hard to say.

Neither political power should have it all their own way. The last time the Republicans were totally in charge they screwed it up. Now that the Democrats are in complete control they are screwing it up. We need a balance.

The "I Got Handed A Mess" message is getting old. Stop running Denmark to get votes for Chicago and the Olympics and work on unemployment HERE. For the entire US. You know California is part of the US too. Not just Chicago and Illinois.

The Presidency is very close to a year old now. Not just nine months. Yes, the economy isn't in good shape, yes there is a war, and there would have been no matter which Texan was President, since they ATTACKED US.

Your new President is finding out that he's like ALL POLITICIANS...if his lips are moving he's lying. He promised the moon as always and can't even deliver cheese. That's because the real political power in our country isn't with the President but with Congress. It's why Kennedy's death was such a big deal.

So, is the country in a mess? Yes it is. Is the current administration doing much to  fix it? Not if you ask the US population. Obama's popularity ratings are falling week by week. Time for the talking to be over and the doing to start.

Obama talked a good fight. Now lets see him actually swing at something and hit it.

The stimulus package....where are the jobs that were created? They can't show a single one. They did stop some foreclosures, and that did help. They gave tons of money to businesses that then either bought up others that didn't get the money or gave it out as bonuses.....

No, Obama has a D+ right now and getting worse by the day.
He needs to stop talking and actually do something.

Good Hunting.

MR

 


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Alan65 on 5 December 2009, 16:41:06
We had some bad news last Sunday when a gunman walked into a coffee shop in Lakewood WA, just south of Tacoma (which is just south of Seattle where I live), and killed four police officiers.  They were in uniform including bulltet-proof vests; one or two survived long enough to struggle with the killer and may have wounded him before he executed them. There was a huge man-hunt, national implications since he was paroled from an Arkansas prison (10 years ago) and also let out of a Washington State prison more recently.  He was killed by police a couple of days ago.  Accomplices have been arrested as well. 

I did a quick google search and didn't really find any one article which told the whole story.  google 'Lakewood police shooting' for thousands of hits.

It's very sad--the biggest police loss in the nation in quite some time--and the officiers leave behind 9 children in all.  Will try to post some brighter news next time.



Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Koen on 5 December 2009, 18:28:28
We had some bad news last Sunday when a gunman walked into a coffee shop in Lakewood WA, just south of Tacoma (which is just south of Seattle where I live), and killed four police officiers.  They were in uniform including bulltet-proof vests; one or two survived long enough to struggle with the killer and may have wounded him before he executed them. There was a huge man-hunt, national implications since he was paroled from an Arkansas prison (10 years ago) and also let out of a Washington State prison more recently.  He was killed by police a couple of days ago.  Accomplices have been arrested as well. 

I did a quick google search and didn't really find any one article which told the whole story.  google 'Lakewood police shooting' for thousands of hits.

It's very sad--the biggest police loss in the nation in quite some time--and the officiers leave behind 9 children in all.  Will try to post some brighter news next time.


luckily this news reached Europe and I was shocked....this wasn't a firefight...it was a deliberate attack on law officers...I wonder why....just random or some kind of revenge on a specific person?


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: FACman on 5 December 2009, 22:47:40
Quote
yes there is a war, and there would have been no matter which Texan was President, since they ATTACKED US.


In this forum I am surprised I have to remind you that the last Bozo running the show started a second front, that was totally unnecessary. That alone put our military's a__ in a sling, not to mention the debt he incurred while doing it. And I dont think 9 months is sufficient time to fix the mess the Pres inherited. Could he be doing more, undoubtedly, but lets give a little credit where its due, we were on the verge of a depression bigger than the 'Great' one of the 30s, and we seem to have dodged that bullet. I highlight that I said its time to work together as Americans, so in that we are in agreement, now lets get the clowns in Washington onboard.


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Alan65 on 6 December 2009, 01:51:29
luckily this news reached Europe and I was shocked....this wasn't a firefight...it was a deliberate attack on law officers...I wonder why....just random or some kind of revenge on a specific person?


I have heard many 'insane' things this guy did; he's also said to have been 'mad about being in prison' (this guy was a robber, rapist, and now murderer; he deserved prison)  I also note that he was sane enough to evade a man-hunt like no other for several days. 
I learned about this on Facebook from a friend who goes to that coffee shop.  No one else was physically hurt; the officiers were deliberately targeted and a get-away car was waiting (driver now arrested.)

Last month a Seattle officier was also executed while parked in a car.  The officer he was training was wounded in the head.  This assassin was also killed a few days later by the police after he refused to give up.  It's a bad time for local law enforcement but they know they have the community's support.
This is different I think than the Fort Hood shooting.


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Mad Russian on 6 December 2009, 04:01:35
Quote
yes there is a war, and there would have been no matter which Texan was President, since they ATTACKED US.


In this forum I am surprised I have to remind you that the last Bozo running the show started a second front, that was totally unnecessary.


The jury's not in on that one yet. You won't know for more than 20 years what the REAL story was. What they knew or didn't know about Saddam Hussein and his games.

Quote
That alone put our military's a__ in a sling, not to mention the debt he incurred while doing it.


No government has ever saved up alot of money go to war and certainly not the US. We only go to war when we are attacked. As in this case. Or we go and help other countries. We don't set out a time table to go to war and make sure we've paid for it first. When do you think that's ever happened?

Quote
And I dont think 9 months is sufficient time to fix the mess the Pres inherited.


I didn't say that you did. And again it's not 9 months it's 11 1/2.

Quote
Could he be doing more, undoubtedly, but lets give a little credit where its due, we were on the verge of a depression bigger than the 'Great' one of the 30s, and we seem to have dodged that bullet. I highlight that I said its time to work together as Americans, so in that we are in agreement, now lets get the clowns in Washington onboard.


I thought this was the weakest choice for President that I've seen in my lifetime. The choice between a man with 143 days experience and one who thought the economy "wasn't doing that bad". Just about anyone besides the two of them would have been a better choice.

You are one of the few that is standing behind him at the moment. His popularity is going straight downhill.

If you remember right the speech that Bush gave when he declared that we were going after the terrorists stated it may well take FORTY YEARS!! It's been nowhere near 40 years and he may have been closer to Mr. I'll have them home by Christmas. By his own admission, it's much harder to BE PRESIDENT than it is to RUN FOR PRESIDENT....do you think?????

Good Hunting.

MR


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: FACman on 6 December 2009, 15:32:14
Quote
The jury's not in on that one yet.


I take it that you don't believe the American people were lied to before we got involved then.

Quote
We only go to war when we are attacked.


When did Irak attack us? Your argument that no country saves up for war is a strawman argument, as Bush never budgeted for the wars he got us into, it was all paid for by supplemental requests. Had he raised taxes to pay for it, we might not be in the financial mess we have today. Surely the deficit would not be what it is today.

Quote
The Presidency is very close to a year old now.

Quote
Time for the talking to be over and the doing to start.

Quote
I didn't say that you did. And again it's not 9 months it's 11 1/2.


From the above quotes I get the impression that he has done nothing in '11 1/2' months, and like the others in America who dont think highly of his efforts, they expect him to work miracles. Well unlike some of his critics, I never thought him a messiah, just a man willing to do a thankless job when the country was in dire straights.

Quote
You are one of the few that is standing behind him at the moment. His popularity is going straight downhill.


I didnt vote for him because he was popular, and I surely will not abandon him, as many Americans are, simply because the herd is moving in that direction. I have long held the opinion that far too many Americans dont vote in our own best interests. There is nothing currently to show me that my opinion should change. As for his stimulus not jump starting enough jobs, I will point out that many economists including a Nobel Laureate, said that it was too small to begin with. Turns out they were right and all the naysayers in Congress and across the land were wrong. Now we have to go for a second stimulus, and once again there are the naysayers bleeting out there nays even in the face of the facts.

Quote
I thought this was the weakest choice for President that I've seen in my lifetime.


You are certainly entitled to your opinion here, I disagree.

Quote
By his own admission, it's much harder to BE PRESIDENT than it is to RUN FOR PRESIDENT....do you think?


No argument here.

At your service,

Jody

ps...for those not here in America, the discussion MR & I are having is also a reflection of the news here.


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Rattler on 6 December 2009, 19:49:11
ps...for those not here in America, the discussion MR & I are having is also a reflection of the news here.

Indeed :)

From the European POV he has already gained his nobel prize, looks by good and interestingly twisted diplomacy he has saved us from another stupid war by simply making traditional mechanisms (with Russia and China) work towards Iran, exactly what the world needed after the last 8 yrs of non-diplomacy and black/white painting of complex situations...

More tormorrow should I manage to get the forum going again...

Rattler


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Koen on 7 December 2009, 20:32:23
as Europeans we never understood how people agreed that he was the elected president after the debacle with the votes... I read and watched docus and I never got it that US citizens were so easy-going with the result and the things that happened...

they say to other countries that when a president does NOT have the majority of votes their should be a re-election....so why not in the US itself?

***************

are we Europeans all stupid when we thought that BUSH was plain dumb when we saw him speeching, walking, debating, asking questions?
(remember on 9/11 how he responded or Katrina and New Orleans...what happened there?)
that every time we heard about a governmental decision the smell of oil was around?
that they never showed us WMD's from Irak? maybe they'll show us later? really? would they wait to convince us?
why do we see so many bad reports from the US concerning crime and prisons? reports on healthcare and the lack of minimal governmental aid to the civilians? are all these reports from bad journalists?
oh, by the way, mr. Bush, God isn't only there for the US, he's up there for EVERYBODY!

**************

I was shocked when I heared that the coufins of fallen soldiers were NOT to be shown on TV! that it would have a negative influence on the population!?! sure, but it's the truth that soldiers are getting killed....
big parades and lots of show when the government agrees but otherwise they forbid the 'homecoming' on TV???? THE moment that the soldier gets back to his country?
Yes, I do believe that the Taliban and Al-Qaeda are the enemies or EVERYBODY (and not only of the free West as often said) but was this war started how it should have been started? were the lessons from the past taken into the debate? did they learn from the Russian Afghan war?

Why haven't there been more anti-Bush demonstrations?
When you see his/his government influence on the economy, social service and more I was/am surprised and always wondered why a kind of 2nd 'Vietnam'-era returned...
Is it of battle-fatigue, are people so used to the fact that American soldiers are sent out to be killed they don't react in public anymore....

***************

Sometimes I wonder if you guys have enough 'open and fair' independent and critical news to read and watch?
Isn't the fact that all newsmedia are put into big concerns (backed with oilmoney) a danger to freedom of speech, read....Criticize on Bush?

When I see the criticism on Obama I get 2 feelings:
1. huuray, it's democracy
2. where were you when Bush was f*** up the world?

Why do think that a new president should stop and reverse the bad that has been done in 8 years (and more) in 11 months?
Is he a magician?


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: sky2979 on 7 December 2009, 21:41:38
No, Obama is not a magician..and I do not expect for him to magicaly change the probs. in our country...he is human alright....BUT hes also a terrorist and terrorist supporter..I will never support him...He is our president and I have no choice in acknowledging it, ( I would be a traitor to our country if I didn't).....At last....I support our country and not the president....


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Rattler on 7 December 2009, 22:58:33
Sorry, but with all due respect and w/o intending to be offensive, all that comes up when I read this is "Ouch!". I guess you Americans have amplified the "Terrorist" definition way beyond what we Europeans coould understand as sensible.

Rattler
...BUT hes also a terrorist and terrorist supporter..I will never support him...He is our president and I have no choice in acknowledging it, ( I would be a traitor to our country if I didn't).....At last....I support our country and not the president....



Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Mad Russian on 8 December 2009, 00:28:38
Koen,

Here in the US the news media is left wing. They support the Democrats. Not the Republicans. There is no ban on any news media events that they don't agree to. Here the press is free to print what it likes. Even when the stories are lies, like the one Dan Rather did on Bush that cost him his job.

So, your perception of our news media "smelling of oil" is completely false. Where do you think you got the perception that everything the Bush administration did was linked to oil in the first place? By the media.

Good Hunting.

MR


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: FACman on 8 December 2009, 02:59:20
Quote
Here in the US the news media is left wing.


I am of a different opinion here, I think the American media is a tool of any administration in power. Yes, there are occasional faux pas by the likes of Dan Rather. I only need to point out the press's silence during the lead up to the war in Irak to prove that point. They failed to vet any of the lies the administration told to get us into that war. Would a left wing media have stood by silently in support of the Republicans if they were in the pocket of the Democrats? I think not.

Quote
Where do you think you got the perception that everything the Bush administration did was linked to oil in the first place? By the media.


Are you saying that the close ties that the Bush family has with the Saudi Royal Family (who control the world's #1 oil producing country) is a fact made up by the media? And the fact that Bush started a war with the world's #2 oil producing country in spite of the fact he had already committed us to fight in Afghanistan was a mere coincidence? Right it was all a media conspiracy.



Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Tanker on 8 December 2009, 16:27:16
No, Obama is not a magician..and I do not expect for him to magicaly change the probs. in our country...he is human alright....BUT hes also a terrorist and terrorist supporter..I will never support him...He is our president and I have no choice in acknowledging it, ( I would be a traitor to our country if I didn't).....At last....I support our country and not the president....


A terrorist?  That's kind of loony.  Where do you get that from?  By just tossing language like that around, you cheapen the meaning of words.

He may be naive, ultra liberal, inexperienced, clueless about protocol, too ready to bow to all and sundry emperors, somewhat pompous and arrogant, indecisive, too eager to please everyone, too ready to blame his predecessor for every evil in the world, but he's not a terrorist.

I don't support many of his policies.  I think his policies will increase the deficit to astronomical levels and bankrupt the country.  I don't want to see the USA turn into a north American version of the European Union, too enfeebled or paralyzed by socialist spending and political correctness to be able to adequately fund it's own defense.

Obama is not the second coming of Christ and Bush is not the devil incarnate, even though many love to paint it that way.

I think he's trying to be the best President he knows how to be, by his lights.

Whatever he is, he's not a terrorist.


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Tanker on 8 December 2009, 16:33:42
Quote
Here in the US the news media is left wing.


I am of a different opinion here, I think the American media is a tool of any administration in power. Yes, there are occasional faux pas by the likes of Dan Rather. I only need to point out the press's silence during the lead up to the war in Irak to prove that point. They failed to vet any of the lies the administration told to get us into that war. Would a left wing media have stood by silently in support of the Republicans if they were in the pocket of the Democrats? I think not.

Quote
Where do you think you got the perception that everything the Bush administration did was linked to oil in the first place? By the media.


Are you saying that the close ties that the Bush family has with the Saudi Royal Family (who control the world's #1 oil producing country) is a fact made up by the media? And the fact that Bush started a war with the world's #2 oil producing country in spite of the fact he had already committed us to fight in Afghanistan was a mere coincidence? Right it was all a media conspiracy.




An interesting fact is that FDR, a Democrat, and a rich aristocrat(seen by some as a socialist) was the first President to establish a close relationship with the House of Saud, during WWII.  We would defend the Kingdom, and they would provide a stable source of oil.


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Jilly on 8 December 2009, 17:06:48
This is a very sad story.  A little seven year old autistic boy became lost in the wood in Nova Scotia, he was eventually found, but has now died.  I feel so bad for the whole family.

Link

http://www.vancouversun.com/autistic+dies+hypothermia/2316122/story.html (http://www.vancouversun.com/autistic+dies+hypothermia/2316122/story.html)

 


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Koen on 8 December 2009, 18:22:59
Koen,

Here in the US the news media is left wing. They support the Democrats. Not the Republicans. There is no ban on any news media events that they don't agree to. Here the press is free to print what it likes. Even when the stories are lies, like the one Dan Rather did on Bush that cost him his job.

So, your perception of our news media "smelling of oil" is completely false. Where do you think you got the perception that everything the Bush administration did was linked to oil in the first place? By the media.

Good Hunting.

MR


my thoughts and ideas are not false neither based on US media.

if you would/could make the difference in the newspapers/media/reporting in the US and here in Belgium/Holland you would see the difference.
I'm blessed with my knowledge of languages (although I would like to speak/read more languages) so I can read/compare reports drom different countries....and what a difference they make!!!!!

did you read about the latest CIA-camp they discovered in Europe? who said there were no such camps neither CIA-flights?
at the end some guys have to quit or get fired except the guy who knows everything....the president...strange...
now you have a guy who wants to change things but you say, after 11 months, he's a failure?
he started a war...true...but not against the world but against all fuckers who oppose him....oilmen...senators who are linked and more money-men....
he has a vision but I doubt he will succeed with so many opponents....will his supporters back him when they get the feeling they'll won't get re-elected....???
at the end 99% are only interested in their own egos...we'll see...I know that he has a lot of supporters here in Europe...God bless us ALL and not only the USofA mr. Bush

ofcourse there isn't a media-ban, that would be saying that democracy and 'freedom of speech' are not longer a fact but hey....who owns the media in the US?
the ban is underneath, in the skin embedded...did the mediaguys get into their position without a political influence?

where did I get the impression that Bush was oil-linked? Steve, do you ask me that question the same time you say that the media is free to report?
damn, where did he get his (re)election-money?
where did he go to war?
where are the 'weapons of mass-destruction'?
who/what supported him during election/re-election/senate-voting and more?

again...I do read and watch docus and reports and yes they are called media but overhere media has a different function....

when I see a docu on a bunch of doctors that go around the US to give people free treatment I shake my head from left to right....how is it possible that in a country as the US people can't afford medical treatment, are refused in clinics etc....USA in 2009?

and calling Obama a terrorist? well, you must be on drugs!
do you think that in 1 day he can say 'fuck' to some governments? just change the complete policy of a government in 1 day?

damn guys and girls...you really should get a better build opinion


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Rattler on 8 December 2009, 21:00:44
It is called "self-censorship" within our journalistic community, and, indeed, a lot of it was present and critizised (in Europe) during the time before the Iraq war (just google it).

I should have to go deeper here (but have no time for RL reasons currently), because self censorship is not somethng to be taken lightly (personally, I believe it is necessary sometimes and in special cases which I could name from my history and if i thought long enough could even come up with an ethical reference) but it is hard to draw the thin line of not commenting or becoming accomplice in a game someone authoritative/institutional is playing with the people/audience based on lies when your job description states you have to put the finger into that wound should you happen to come across it.

Rattler


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Rattler on 8 December 2009, 21:08:41
Just read it, what a tragedy, so sad indeed. What a pity the dog could nothelp him.

Just had a case in my circles also, a policeman from our village was found dead in a 15 mtrs deep well he had accidentally fallen ino in the mountains when hunting, died from starvation. He probably already died 5 weeks ago, but he was not missed as he was living single and had gone on vacations.

Incredibly cruel form to die, as it probably took weeks.

Rattler

This is a very sad story.  A little seven year old autistic boy became lost in the wood in Nova Scotia, he was eventually found, but has now died.  I feel so bad for the whole family.

Link

[url]http://www.vancouversun.com/autistic+dies+hypothermia/2316122/story.html[/url] ([url]http://www.vancouversun.com/autistic+dies+hypothermia/2316122/story.html[/url])

 



Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Mad Russian on 8 December 2009, 21:16:50
God Bless All Europeans on the planet.....you too Koen.

Good Hunting.

MR


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: MontyB on 9 December 2009, 06:07:23
Couple sleep through dog theft
NZPA December 9, 2009, 4:46 pm

A Hastings couple who slept through a burglary wondered why their two english bulldogs didn't bark, then discovered the dogs had been stolen too.

Ben Epplett and Anya-Lee McLaren stopped fretting about their lost television, stereo and PS3 when they discovered their dogs missing after an overnight burglary two weeks ago, Hawke's Bay Today reported.

The dogs had been placated with food.

Miss McLaren said losing the pair was a big blow after spending so much time and money fulfilling their dream of dog ownership.

The couple bought an english bulldog online earlier this year but discovered the sale was an elaborate scam.

They eventually bought one-year-old Skye and three-month-old Draco. Miss McLaren said her partner had been hit the hardest.

"I cried ... but he's really upset. They were his best friends. He's trying to do what he can to get them back," she said.

"We don't want our stuff back, we just want our dogs more than anything."


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Solideo on 9 December 2009, 08:41:47
Some way of incredible acttitude.

When a Guardia >Civil coast boat was on the run after some drug dealers they came into Gibraltar harbour. They where treated like invaders and interrogated and jailed, some days before British shot an Spanish flag.

After interrogation Spanish policemen where liberated ( it´s said without their weapons ) and our Minister sucked British authorities cock. Unbelieveble.



Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Koen on 9 December 2009, 19:45:29
interesting to read:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/nov/03/obama-first-anniversary-healthcare-congress (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/nov/03/obama-first-anniversary-healthcare-congress)
Quote
On that improbably warm night exactly one year ago, the crowd in Grant Park, Chicago, cheered itself hoarse as Barack Obama, the newly minted president-elect of the United States, stepped on stage and announced that "change has come to America".

Of course they were cheering the passing of George Bush and the historic breakthrough of America's first black president. But the air that night was also heavy with imagining: the hordes in Grant Park, like those around the world punching the sky as they watched on TV, were picturing how different things might be with Obama in charge.

Surely the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan would soon become memories, along with Camp X-Ray at Guantánamo Bay, which the new president had promised to close. Iran would clasp the hand Obama planned to extend, while Israelis and Palestinians would heed the president's promise to work for Middle East peace the moment he took office. The economy would soon be righted, the greed-merchants of Wall Street punished and tamed, and Obama would complete the long-unfinished work of his predecessors, finally bringing to the US what most other civilised nations take for granted: basic healthcare for all. Oh, and Obama would surely do what had to be done on climate change.

Now, one year on, it can feel as if all that was a foolish mirage. The US is still fighting two wars; Guantánamo remains open, with no clear plan for its closure given that Congress has ruled that none of its inmates can be moved to the US; Iran has not yet agreed to anything; Middle East peace looks as distant as ever; the US economy is still limping, with unemployment around 10%; healthcare has provoked a congressional battle royal; and as for serious US action on climate change, don't hold your breath.

As if to dramatise the contrast, television viewers in the US can tonight flip between the hope and the reality. HBO premieres a glossy documentary, By the People, recounting the excitement of Obama's 2008 odyssey. Over on the news channels, there will be live coverage of the expected Democratic defeat in the governor's race in Virginia, offsetting the victory Obama won there a year ago, with a similar rebuff feared in New Jersey.

It would be silly to read too much into off-year election results, just as it would be to think that none of the hopes of a year ago have materialised. In fact, Obama can point to a solid start. The war in Iraq is being wound down. The economy has stabilised, thanks to a swiftly passed stimulus package worth $787bn. It may not have been enough; it may be taking too long to work. But it has helped, saving or creating more than 640,000 jobs, according to White House figures. And, with a minimum of fuss, he has put a liberal Hispanic woman on the supreme court.

Still, this is not quite the degree of change people had in mind when they danced in the streets and honked their car horns into the small hours a year ago. Why has the big shift they anticipated not come about?

The first answer sounds like a cop-out: blame the system. We imagine the US presidency to be the most powerful office on earth. But the reality is that, relatively speaking, an American president has less direct power than a British prime minister. He has no command over Congress; he cannot whip even his own party into line. They are a law unto themselves. Obama may have been utterly sincere in his desire to transform American healthcare. But he was always at the mercy of a handful of senators whose votes make the difference between success and failure.

It is one of the great paradoxes of the American system. A country that acts in so many ways like a revolutionary society – from its creation myth to the personality cult that surrounds its founding fathers – is constituted to thwart all but the most incremental change. As Anna Quindlen wrote in a Newsweek essay on Obama's first year – coverline: Yes, he can (but he sure hasn't yet) – "what our system has meant … is that very little of the big stuff gets done. It simply can't." Which is why universal healthcare has appeared on the to-do list of presidents going back as far as Teddy Roosevelt. If Obama hasn't cracked this one yet, he is merely joining a century-old club.

Some have faulted the president for failing to make good on his signature promise to heal the rift between red and blue states, to end the rancour that separates Republicans from Democrats. But here the blame surely rests not on his shoulders, nor even on the system, but on his opponents. He has reached out countless times – trying to woo Republicans by stuffing his stimulus package with tax cuts, for example – but they have repeatedly rebuffed him.

What's more, beyond Washington Obama has faced an opposition that is shocking in its vitriol. Bowing down to the twin gods of Sarah Palin and the Fox News blowhard Glenn Beck, these rightists have set about depicting Obama as a socialist, a Stalinist, a Nazi, a Muslim and a foreigner posing as a native-born US citizen. They are backed by serious corporate money, a cable TV and talk radio fraternity unconstrained by any duty to the facts, and a network of enablers in Congress. They are an implacable foe and have made Obama's promised bipartisanship impossible.

Still, none of this should let Obama off the hook for his own errors. As a candidate, he let expectations get unfeasibly high: he could only ever disappoint. More seriously, as president he has too often left a vacuum where his own plans and vision should be. He left the details of healthcare up to Congress, where things got mired and the opposition stole the initiative – forcing him to ride to the rescue, saving the day with a spellbinding speech. He pulled that trick several times as a candidate, but it will soon wear thin.

Some have said his prime failing is not to have crafted a single narrative that might bind the disparate elements of his programme, from health to the economy to climate change. (Many of us used to say the same about New Labour.) But sometimes Obama's mistakes are more basic. On Israel-Palestine he should never have issued a demand he wasn't ready to enforce: by insisting Israel freeze all settlements on the West Bank, only to back down, he has lost face in a region where face counts above all.

So Obama marks the anniversary of his election contemplating those things that have held him back, both from within and without. Despite it all, he can point to much that should hearten those who wish him well. His rolling seminar on Afghanistan suggests a president who is deliberate and thoughtful – a welcome contrast with a predecessor who underwent only a "gutcheck" before hurling thunderbolts from the sky.

And he can plausibly argue that plenty might come right sooner than we think. That healthcare bill could be ready in less than a week. If Iran says yes to the current uranium enrichment deal, Obama will secure a victory that might even justify that premature Nobel prize: defusing what could have been a cataclysmic nuclear threat without firing a shot.

Besides, Obama is not on the same timetable as us journalists. He does not need to get it right after 100 days or one year. He just needs to get it right. And for that the deadline is not November 2009 – but November 2012.



Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Rattler on 9 December 2009, 20:22:17
Some way of incredible acttitude.

When a Guardia >Civil coast boat was on the run after some drug dealers they came into Gibraltar harbour. They where treated like invaders and interrogated and jailed, some days before British shot an Spanish flag.

After interrogation Spanish policemen where liberated ( it´s said without their weapons ) and our Minister sucked British authorities cock. Unbelieveble.

While probably a bit crude, Solideo got it basically right, this is a major diplomatic incident between UK and Spain as the waters involved by all rules are Spanish (but the Brits seem to believe differently):

Day before yesterday at night and in dark the GC craft was doing a NATO anti-terrorist routine vigilance for a US mil Navy craft passing the strait, and when a speedboat close to it (detected by SIVE and it´s computers) did what SIVE is to detect, "strange"maneuvers", they opted to do their job and stop the vessel to ask their intentions.

Looks the guys were Narcos all right (not strange in the strait, see background below) and decided it was better to get hell out of Dodge, turning towards the Rock. GC took up pursuit (legally it is called "hot pursuit" and a right granted by all neighbour nations, they had asked guidance by superiors and were told to pursue) and followed the speed boat into Gibraltar port (the only waters that Spain recognizes legally as British waters, as the conventions signed by all partners call for 22 nm national waters, and the rock is within 8.5 - again, see background and map below).

Once there, the GC used accustic and optical signals to alert local police that was stationed on the key, then, after the Narcos disembarked they did also and pursued them on Gibraltar territory (all within the contracts between the three parties).

What happened is that the Gibraltar police (under English signs) detained not only the Narcos, but also the GC soldiers.

They were succumbed to severe interrogation (though they state they were treated correctly all the time), their arms and boat were confiscated, and 4 hours later they were sent back to Spain (w/o legal arms and boat).

Yesterday the boat and arms were officially given back after Spanish FOreign Miister phoned his counterpart and asked pardon, stating "...such an irresponsible act would not happen again.." (reminder: The GC was ding what they had been told, what was their right, and what is internationally agreed upon standard an part of the contracts between Britain, the Rock and Spain).

Looks now the GC soliders carreer comes to an end, they will be court maritalled for "...dirt spotting the image of Spain".

A shame indeed, something is going on here in the background we normal people do not see, seems Britain is taking a more and more aggressive stance against the contracts and intl. rules, reason unclear.

Fact is, as Solideo stated, they did some naval live fire exercises using floats with Spanish Flag as targets (got caught on photo, but didn´t even find it worth a mail).

That´s the incident, for the people that do not know so much about European quarrels, here the background:

Locatiion: Strait of Gibraltar, separating Atlantic from Med, Africa to the SOUTH, Spain to the NORTH, and the rock of Gibraltar in the middle:

(http://www.warandtactics.com/Images/gib_strait.jpg)

(http://www.warandtactics.com/Images/gib_detail.jpg)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/02/Rock_of_Gibraltar_South_View.jpg/800px-Rock_of_Gibraltar_South_View.jpg)

Background:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar)

The other side sees it differently of cause (pass the URL for the translator http://translate.google.com/?hl=en#en (http://translate.google.com/?hl=en#en)|es|): http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2009/12/09/espana/1260372274.html (http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2009/12/09/espana/1260372274.html)

What seems to be sure is that the Spanish Government, for reasons unknown, succumbs to irreal claims of the British Goverment and even asks pardon despite having been bullied for the last month there in what appears in the media her as a steeping up of claiming Spanish national waters for the Brits by them...:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1229580/British-ambassador-forced-apologise-Royal-Navy-ship-used-Spanish-flag-target-practice.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1229580/British-ambassador-forced-apologise-Royal-Navy-ship-used-Spanish-flag-target-practice.html)

Strange, at least.

Rattler



Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Solideo on 10 December 2009, 08:26:34
Thanks Ratt, you explained it with a fluid comments I cannot do with my shit English use of that language.


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: FACman on 10 December 2009, 14:11:52
The British still hold 'The Rock' only out of stubbornness, as it is of little tactical value to them any longer. Modern weaponry has made it's use as a fortress redundant. One would think as a member nation of the EU, that they would return it to Spain, while Spain would allow a British naval base for perpetuity. After all, they are allies, no?


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Rattler on 10 December 2009, 22:11:54
The British still hold 'The Rock' only out of stubbornness, as it is of little tactical value to them any longer. - snip- After all, they are allies, no?

It still is: It´s a major point for their nuclear subs to "get emergency repairs" that leave them for month stationed there (under severe diplomatic pressure from Spain as in theory they are excluded by contract, google a few of the cases in the last 15 yrs, here an example: http://www.euroresidentes.com/Blogs/2005/02/british-nuclear-submarine-in-gibraltar.htm (http://www.euroresidentes.com/Blogs/2005/02/british-nuclear-submarine-in-gibraltar.htm)).

Whatever you say, the Brits tightened the screw another notch yesterday:

A GC vessel was again pursuing a suspected Narco speed boat, when suddenly a British Naval vessel (type not specified) cut their path trying to seperate them from the pursuit (the GC managed to doge the coliision by what they describe "one yard" and had the Brits following behind until catching the suspects - which turned out to be legal, just their boat was illegal), this in waters that are not even claimed by the Brits to be theirs (1 nm from Algeciras port).

As another spin, when giving back the GC speedboat of the above etione incident, yesterday, thy refused to hand it back within 2 nm of the Rock and forced the GC to move 1.5 nm pressuring with two (!) frigates to a point where they gave back boat and arms. pne frigate circeling so fast that the waves it produced almost made it physical impossilbe to take over the boat...

Now, one is asking oneself, what is happening there? The sudden (many years it was quiet) Brit aggressiveness makes no obvious sense at all at first glance: Incidents every day, harrssing and hassling, almost always when narcos are followed...

Might there be a faint chance that someone within the Brits authorities is part of a big coke deal (to put an example, could be dope as well) and has ordered to protect "his" expected shipment that would make him millionaire? Stranger things have been seen happening...

Just thinking aloud,

Rattler


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: FACman on 11 December 2009, 12:48:06
Quote
little tactical value


Nuclear Submarines are hardly tactical assets, and a British naval base would cover their repairs. As for the diplomatic issue of having nuclear vessels at the base, sounds like Spain needs to grow a pair and make the Brits pay for their arrogance via some mechanism in the EU. If that fails start arming the monkeys on 'The Rock', that should make the Brits a little nervous. (j/k)


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Alan65 on 11 December 2009, 16:04:06
Sorry, Koen, but is this article supposed to be one of the balanced/alternative views you get?  This is no different from what one can easily get in the US.  It is also equally as biased and mis-informed:  The writer shares the same views as the President and the Left in the US about what 'good' policy is; the writer uses biased US sources; the writer is mis-informed about how the US system works.
interesting to read:

[url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/nov/03/obama-first-anniversary-healthcare-congress[/url] ([url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/nov/03/obama-first-anniversary-healthcare-congress[/url])
Quote
On that improbably warm night exactly one year ago, the crowd in Grant Park, Chicago, cheered itself hoarse as Barack Obama, the newly minted president-elect of the United States, stepped on stage and announced that "change has come to America".

Of course they were cheering the passing of George Bush and the historic breakthrough of America's first black president. But the air that night was also heavy with imagining: the hordes in Grant Park, like those around the world punching the sky as they watched on TV, were picturing how different things might be with Obama in charge.

Surely the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan would soon become memories, along with Camp X-Ray at Guantánamo Bay, which the new president had promised to close. Iran would clasp the hand Obama planned to extend, while Israelis and Palestinians would heed the president's promise to work for Middle East peace the moment he took office. The economy would soon be righted, the greed-merchants of Wall Street punished and tamed, and Obama would complete the long-unfinished work of his predecessors, finally bringing to the US what most other civilised nations take for granted: basic healthcare for all. Oh, and Obama would surely do what had to be done on climate change.

Now, one year on, it can feel as if all that was a foolish mirage. The US is still fighting two wars; Guantánamo remains open, with no clear plan for its closure given that Congress has ruled that none of its inmates can be moved to the US; Iran has not yet agreed to anything; Middle East peace looks as distant as ever; the US economy is still limping, with unemployment around 10%; healthcare has provoked a congressional battle royal; and as for serious US action on climate change, don't hold your breath.

As if to dramatise the contrast, television viewers in the US can tonight flip between the hope and the reality. HBO premieres a glossy documentary, By the People, recounting the excitement of Obama's 2008 odyssey. Over on the news channels, there will be live coverage of the expected Democratic defeat in the governor's race in Virginia, offsetting the victory Obama won there a year ago, with a similar rebuff feared in New Jersey.

It would be silly to read too much into off-year election results, just as it would be to think that none of the hopes of a year ago have materialised. In fact, Obama can point to a solid start. The war in Iraq is being wound down. The economy has stabilised, thanks to a swiftly passed stimulus package worth $787bn. It may not have been enough; it may be taking too long to work. But it has helped, saving or creating more than 640,000 jobs, according to White House figures. And, with a minimum of fuss, he has put a liberal Hispanic woman on the supreme court.

Still, this is not quite the degree of change people had in mind when they danced in the streets and honked their car horns into the small hours a year ago. Why has the big shift they anticipated not come about?

The first answer sounds like a cop-out: blame the system. We imagine the US presidency to be the most powerful office on earth. But the reality is that, relatively speaking, an American president has less direct power than a British prime minister. He has no command over Congress; he cannot whip even his own party into line. They are a law unto themselves. Obama may have been utterly sincere in his desire to transform American healthcare. But he was always at the mercy of a handful of senators whose votes make the difference between success and failure.

It is one of the great paradoxes of the American system. A country that acts in so many ways like a revolutionary society – from its creation myth to the personality cult that surrounds its founding fathers – is constituted to thwart all but the most incremental change. As Anna Quindlen wrote in a Newsweek essay on Obama's first year – coverline: Yes, he can (but he sure hasn't yet) – "what our system has meant … is that very little of the big stuff gets done. It simply can't." Which is why universal healthcare has appeared on the to-do list of presidents going back as far as Teddy Roosevelt. If Obama hasn't cracked this one yet, he is merely joining a century-old club.

Some have faulted the president for failing to make good on his signature promise to heal the rift between red and blue states, to end the rancour that separates Republicans from Democrats. But here the blame surely rests not on his shoulders, nor even on the system, but on his opponents. He has reached out countless times – trying to woo Republicans by stuffing his stimulus package with tax cuts, for example – but they have repeatedly rebuffed him.

What's more, beyond Washington Obama has faced an opposition that is shocking in its vitriol. Bowing down to the twin gods of Sarah Palin and the Fox News blowhard Glenn Beck, these rightists have set about depicting Obama as a socialist, a Stalinist, a Nazi, a Muslim and a foreigner posing as a native-born US citizen. They are backed by serious corporate money, a cable TV and talk radio fraternity unconstrained by any duty to the facts, and a network of enablers in Congress. They are an implacable foe and have made Obama's promised bipartisanship impossible.

Still, none of this should let Obama off the hook for his own errors. As a candidate, he let expectations get unfeasibly high: he could only ever disappoint. More seriously, as president he has too often left a vacuum where his own plans and vision should be. He left the details of healthcare up to Congress, where things got mired and the opposition stole the initiative – forcing him to ride to the rescue, saving the day with a spellbinding speech. He pulled that trick several times as a candidate, but it will soon wear thin.

Some have said his prime failing is not to have crafted a single narrative that might bind the disparate elements of his programme, from health to the economy to climate change. (Many of us used to say the same about New Labour.) But sometimes Obama's mistakes are more basic. On Israel-Palestine he should never have issued a demand he wasn't ready to enforce: by insisting Israel freeze all settlements on the West Bank, only to back down, he has lost face in a region where face counts above all.

So Obama marks the anniversary of his election contemplating those things that have held him back, both from within and without. Despite it all, he can point to much that should hearten those who wish him well. His rolling seminar on Afghanistan suggests a president who is deliberate and thoughtful – a welcome contrast with a predecessor who underwent only a "gutcheck" before hurling thunderbolts from the sky.

And he can plausibly argue that plenty might come right sooner than we think. That healthcare bill could be ready in less than a week. If Iran says yes to the current uranium enrichment deal, Obama will secure a victory that might even justify that premature Nobel prize: defusing what could have been a cataclysmic nuclear threat without firing a shot.

Besides, Obama is not on the same timetable as us journalists. He does not need to get it right after 100 days or one year. He just needs to get it right. And for that the deadline is not November 2009 – but November 2012.





Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Jilly on 11 December 2009, 16:04:31
I love reading your posts FACman.  It always makes me smile the way you put things.   8)


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Rattler on 11 December 2009, 18:57:49
I love reading your posts FACman.  It always makes me smile the way you put things.   8)

Second that. Keep them coming!  :)

As for the issue, I meant *strategical"* and not tactical, simply because as you already pointed out, long before my life time had indeed lost all tis tactical value.

Rattler


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Koen on 11 December 2009, 19:13:12
Quote
Sorry, Koen, but is this article supposed to be one of the balanced/alternative views you get?


well, do we ever know who's right/wrong/neutral?

I quoted this article to keep a good discussion ongoing and to read the replies of US members, I never said this was THE truth for me...I'm always open for different views, certainly from people living IN the country...

What interests me the most in the US discussions is the is the difference in POV's of inhabitants and the Europeans

The main reason to quote this text is that it clearly says that you can't solve in 1 year what others have done wrong in the previous 8 years and to that I say 'acknowledged'.


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Rattler on 11 December 2009, 20:38:57
Koen, you *quoted* that article allright, but as you did not offer any opinon on it (except "interesting": Actually, everything is "interesting"...) you do not really discuss, posting an article w/o comment usually stands for "Here what I am thinking" (if it were not so the quoter surely would have stated otherwise) and you will have to live with people assuming that your quopte represents your opinion.

What do you want to see discussed, and between whom?

Opinions of *others* that we all can find on the net (like this article, you did not even put it into context or explained *why* you found it interesting) discussed by forumites, or *your* take on life and situations/cricumstances as described in the article discussed by your co-forumites?

There is a reason why general netiqette and most forums frown upon uncommented quotations, it simply does *not* further a discussion as far as forum members are concerned, it is just like saying "Oh, look!" and pointing to the sky/horizon/ground and then run, leaving the other people around you wondering: "er..., what?!?"... Think about a bar, over a beer, when suddenly someone says: "You know, the other day I saw a white cat and a black cat, and they were crossing the street in oppsite directions..." and then goes back to musing over his beer, it is the same effect.

From my POV it would have been much more interesting and fruitful to read your last post (reply to Alan) right below/above the quoted article for starters and when you posted, er,  quoted it, because *there* you state what *you* think and intended by quoting, and not have required us others to be mind readers second guessing you.

Rattler

Quote
Sorry, Koen, but is this article supposed to be one of the balanced/alternative views you get?


well, do we ever know who's right/wrong/neutral?

I quoted this article to keep a good discussion ongoing and to read the replies of US members, I never said this was THE truth for me...I'm always open for different views, certainly from people living IN the country...

What interests me the most in the US discussions is the is the difference in POV's of inhabitants and the Europeans

The main reason to quote this text is that it clearly says that you can't solve in 1 year what others have done wrong in the previous 8 years and to that I say 'acknowledged'.



Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Jilly on 11 December 2009, 21:50:13
Ratter, I really liked the way you displayed those maps and the whole description.  You would have made a great teacher.  Were you ever a teacher?


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Rattler on 11 December 2009, 22:07:28
You would have made a great teacher.  Were you ever a teacher?

Not in the strict (school) sense of the word, but, yes I have a nack for it and ppl tell  me I am good, so I tried myself several times at instructing: Through flight instructor, then Staff Comms Instructor for Disaster Response Staff Comms Centrals after the army, then later did my photographic workshops for apprentecises from other befriended companies, one example here: http://eventfoto.com/photos/workshop_dec_2003/index.html (http://eventfoto.com/photos/workshop_dec_2003/index.html)

I think I would have made a good teacher, but only for stuff I myself am interested in... :)

Rattler


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Jilly on 13 December 2009, 03:21:06
Yes,  You would have been a great teacher,  Matt.   :)


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Solideo on 29 December 2009, 07:30:31
In a bis resume:

Latest news say that Zapatero is still stupid


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Solideo on 1 January 2010, 07:11:02
Still the same news than before, he says that we are leavint crisis this 2010, so it confirms he is still stupid or simply he doesn´t know what crisis is.


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Koen on 1 January 2010, 11:09:22
Still the same news than before, he says that we are leavint crisis this 2010, so it confirms he is still stupid or simply he doesn´t know what crisis is.


just makin' himself popular, it is THE time of year to bring good news  :o


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Solideo on 2 January 2010, 07:18:04

just makin' himself popular, it is THE time of year to bring good news  :o


Probably, so I am gonna send him nicest present I can imagine for him..."Nacho Vidal´s dildo", it´s not a secret he has been fucking all us up our arses, so time for him to know what it is.

Thanks Koen, I will put you in my list of political advisors when I win next elections  ;)

Cheers


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: FACman on 2 January 2010, 17:15:24
From the flow of the conversation, me thinks Soli doesnt care for this Zapatero fellow very much...  hihi


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Solideo on 2 January 2010, 19:24:28
From the flow of the conversation, me thinks Soli doesnt care for this Zapatero fellow very much...  hihi


Yeaaah, next mick, Facman Holmes, or Sherlock Facman, LOOOL, great...  iconclap xangel


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Rattler on 2 January 2010, 22:47:46
well, the fellow is our president... :); and, IIRC, since yesterday also the European President... (part time/shared, they got a change in the system here implemented after the Lisbon treaty was accepted a few weeks ago).

Rattler


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Koen on 2 January 2010, 23:11:33
well, the fellow is our president... :); and, IIRC, since yesterday also the European President... (part time/shared, they got a change in the system here implemented after the Lisbon treaty was accepted a few weeks ago).

Rattler


shared precidency?


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Rattler on 2 January 2010, 23:30:01
yep, first shared presidency, with that new Belgian guy, Heman Von Rompuy, Prez of the Comission (which, within the Lisbon treaty means *permanent* Prez of the EU, aka "Prime Minister"):

http://www.thereader.es/en/spain-news-stories/1418-spain-takes-over-eu-presidency.html (http://www.thereader.es/en/spain-news-stories/1418-spain-takes-over-eu-presidency.html)

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/spain-takes-eu-presidency-under-new-leadership-structure (http://www.nowpublic.com/world/spain-takes-eu-presidency-under-new-leadership-structure)

Rattler


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Jilly on 3 January 2010, 02:13:31
Organized crime is no longer as organized as it used to be, no doubt about it. 

Hundreds of mourners gathered at Notre Dame de la Defense church in Little Italy, Montreal, Saturday to pay their final respects to Nick Rizzuto Jr. Son of reputed mafia kingpin Vito Rizzuto, who was gunned down in broad daylight on Monday in N.D.G., near the offices of FTM Construction.

Vito Rizzuto is still in prison and his father Nicolo Rizzuto Sr. is out on parole, and was able to attend the funeral of his grandson. 

It is said that Nick Rozzuto was a good family man,  never harassed anyone, so why was he shot down?  Another revenge killing?

Link:

http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100102/mtl_rizzuto_funeral_100102/20100102/?hub=MontrealHome (http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100102/mtl_rizzuto_funeral_100102/20100102/?hub=MontrealHome)


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Jilly on 4 January 2010, 21:31:13
No one interested in the Montreal Mafia Wars I assume?


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Rattler on 4 January 2010, 22:44:44
No one interested in the Montreal Mafia Wars I assume?

Interested, yes, but I do not know anything about it, maybe if you wrote up a little article to give the perspective and the background (history, mafia section, etc.)? The link you posted does not provide that, so it is hard to comment from the outside.

Rattler


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Jilly on 4 January 2010, 22:46:50
Here's some info. about it on wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vito_Rizzuto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vito_Rizzuto)

Some years back I lived in Montreal,  in an area called St.  Leonard,  which is an area which is highly populated by Italians.  Some people who lived there told me that the those with the Lamborghini's parked outside of their houses, probably had Mafia connections.  I had no way proving or disproving this, but it was an interesting connection.


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Solideo on 25 April 2010, 08:35:38
Going on the Greece way here in Spain. Que Dios nos pille confesados (God save our economic asses)


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Koen on 25 April 2010, 09:40:43
Going on the Greece way here in Spain. Que Dios nos pille confesados (God save our economic asses)



heard about it some time ago when they listed the countries in danger, Spain was on top of the list.

We, Belgium, are is so deep political shit we don't even care anymore..

read this before continuing here to get an idea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels-Halle-Vilvoorde (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels-Halle-Vilvoorde)

in a couple of months we'll lead the EU but normally we don't have a government anymore at this point.... hdbng hdbng


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Rattler on 25 April 2010, 22:23:29
Well, Solideo knows I disagree... :)

Spain is in trouble, and I also credit this to a part to the current government and governor (I was there: "No nos falles!!" (= "Dont fail us!"), and he did in parts - and in the important ones for that, though I have to give him credit in many a ways in the social department, Spain leaped a century ahead in this respect...!), but we are no way going Greece:

Too much impulse here from the single person side, people that do want to work, people that understand that taxes are a needed evil and cope grudignly (when even our politicians in charge of tax recurses claim in front of the judge that they avoided paying taxes doing all in black: Mr. Matas!!!), people that are ready to give thier best at 30 degrees centigrad at plain sun on a construction site, all very different from the Greek set up (where, according to my experience, nobody really *wants* to work..., no offense intnded, just my experience).

Spain is strong, because it has strong people that are accustomed to get along with whatever life throws at them, and seeing the layout from the outside I have no doubt whatsoever they will make their way, as always...

Wishful thinking? Maybe, but based on experience (let us see Barca-Inter on Wednesday, then we will know where the nation goes: Soccer, for some yet unexplored reason, always shows where a nation stands - though my statistics show it is the selection that creates the picture).

My idea (soccer and politics wise in Spain) stems from seeing the goal fall in a Madrid-Dortmund Champions Leauge match a few 10 years ago (semi.finals APR 1 (!!) ´98): I was in Germany that day, sharing the event with some friends that also were Espanophiles, and I kept telling them : "Wait, it will turn out perfect". And it did:

After many attempts to raise the original goal structure (with poles in the ground, frantically woeking guys trying to make it stand up again, of cause to no use: Madrid Football Club did not have a reserve goal) some poor lorry drivers on the motorway 50 km away heard of the problem on te radio, went to another soccer field and simply "robbed" the goal from it and carried it with their lorry to Bernabeu Stadium (they made the headlines of all news papers the next day as heroes, and rightly so from my POV :)).

Turned out the goal that was finally raised (76 minutes later) was 3 cm lower than the original, Dortmund filed a complaint but (luckily so for my german soul) withdrew it afterwards, as both tems played the same setup for 45 minutes each (interstingly I cannot find a vid in Spanish, only German vids - and a lot, you can see the chaos and the solution, *typically* and unrepeatably Spain here):

This vid is a representation for the (German) national TV award the two German moderators won for their covering of the event, inventing stuff to keep audience... It was April 1st, in the end 14 millio spectators follwed the setup of the new goal (in Germany)... When the ball finally started rolling audience dropped to 800.000... (and nobody, incl. yours truly, remebers the result of this seni final match... :) )

See Spain at its best:

Der Torbruch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgP1mM8oQwE#lq-lq2-hq)

My mystic take on things in Spain and on my life, seriously.

Solideo, dont fear for Spain, there will always be a lorry driver fixing things when shit hits the fan!

Rattler


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Solideo on 27 April 2010, 10:59:03
Koen I have heard of that in Spanish news, we humans, sometimes look like the down in evolution rates.

Rattler...I don´t like football, Lol.



Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Jilly on 27 April 2010, 13:52:05
A question of Solideo or Rattler:  How much would you expect to pay for  a house in Spain.

----   a 3 or 4 bed room a fixer upper?

----  a 3 or 4 bedroom that is in reasonable condition?

----  does it depend on the location?  Which areas are cheaper and which are more expensive?


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Rattler on 27 April 2010, 20:27:48
Koen I have heard of that in Spanish news, we humans, sometimes look like the down in evolution rates.

Rattler...I don´t like football, Lol.

My friend, that was not about soccer, it was about the Spanish way of working things :), soccer was just a publicly (vid) available example... :)

Rattler


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Rattler on 27 April 2010, 20:37:41
A question of Solideo or Rattler:  How much would you expect to pay for  a house in Spain.

----   a 3 or 4 bed room a fixer upper?

----  a 3 or 4 bedroom that is in reasonable condition?

----  does it depend on the location?  Which areas are cheaper and which are more expensive?

I really depends on location.

Take the island where I live, Mallorca: Cost per sqm will be around 2000 Euros+

Take Spain main land, there are (a last life project I would love to find people for, any takers!!??) *WHOLE VILLAGES* (almost abandoned) for sale at around 15.000+ Euros (of cause, because nobody wants to live there, they usually are in rural areas with hard climatic conditions either way: Rain or Heat, or Cold, no infrastructure, and the youth -so it existed- has left ofr the cities to earn a living: Running an Olive Orchard is not the way to make money nowadays...), some of them have been bought and become real beauties by private inititiative of (normally) young people, renting out the places for work input and activating tourism.

Examples:

1. This village (Lacasta), inc. castle, is for sale for 189.000 Euros (that is the price of an average apartment in any other place in Europe):

España Directo: Lacasta, pueblo abandonado en venta (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKt05372oTE#lq-lq2-hq)

2. The villages shown in the next vid cost between 50.000 and 200.000 Euros (the vid name has it: "Where Silence Lives"), you can take ti (and the responibilities) tomorrow.

Pueblos Abandonados de Tierras Altas de Soria (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlfvSWdU6M0#lq-lq2)

This  one costs 5.999 Euros, alltogether:

UMBRALEJO, UN PUEBLO ABANDONADO CON FUTURO (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcGVEw9eo#lq-hq)

This one was for free, if you were a baker, carpenter or plumber and promise to keep the profession going (a Romanian family took it over):

Se Ofrece Vida Nueva (Offer: A New Life). Tempero (24/06/2007) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmcNIiaFKWI#lq-hq)

There are literally hundreds of them.

Rattler


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Jilly on 27 April 2010, 23:04:20
Wow, Mallorca is very expensive. 

A whole village for only 189,000 euros?  It says in the clip that it's actually 189 MILLION Euros?     Would this include the   land the buildings are on too?  I have heard that Spain has some funny laws for foreigners who buy property there.  In that they have to give it up if the government asks them to.  Is this so?

You work in real estate don't you Rattler?  Tell me,  just how run down are these properties?   I can see that it would be a major project for some developer,  someone who has the cash flow to fix them up and make them livable.  And  then there's the infrastructure to think about...



Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Rattler on 28 April 2010, 03:05:57
Wow, Mallorca is very expensive. 

A whole village for only 189,000 euros?  It says in the clip that it's actually 189 MILLION Euros?

"Mil" in Spanish means "thousand" in English... :) 189.000 Euros, not Millions :)
Would this include the land the buildings are on too?

Yes, of cause.

I have heard that Spain has some funny laws for foreigners who buy property there.  In that they have to give it up if the government asks them to.  Is this so?

Not that I knew of. Laws for foreign buyers are the same as for Spanish buyers, no difference. You can be forced to cede your land (foreigner or Spaniard alike) if a project like a motorway etc. needs it, but it will have to be for parliament decision that has declared public interest. Apart from this there is no way you can be forced to let your land to government. In France, there is a law that foreigners can not inherit land they bought to their heirs, once they die it falls back to the government, but this is not the case in Spain.

Tell me,  just how run down are these properties?   I can see that it would be a major project for some developer,  someone who has the cash flow to fix them up and make them livable.  And  then there's the infrastructure to think about...

This totally depends on the village, there are completely inctact (if not on modern standards) houses as well as run down ones, the whole spectrum.

Rattler


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Solideo on 29 April 2010, 02:46:10
It was suppossed man...


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Jilly on 29 April 2010, 20:43:02
Thanks Rattler,  that is so interesting...

In France, there is a law that foreigners can not inherit land they bought to their heirs, once they die it falls back to the government, but this is not the case in Spain.


I was just wondering where you got this info. from?  do you have a link for this?


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Solideo on 30 April 2010, 07:31:45
Today one of the most important basque terrorist has dissapeared. >:(

De Juana, who was living in North Ireland is any unknown place a month ago.  hdbng This looks like a Marx brothers film. Stupidity to the limits.



Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Koen on 30 April 2010, 11:14:52
Today one of the most important basque terrorist has dissapeared. >:(

De Juana, who was living in North Ireland is any unknown place a month ago.  hdbng This looks like a Marx brothers film. Stupidity to the limits.


if they knew where he was...why wasn't he arrested then by Irish police? no exchange treaty between Ireland and Spain?


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Rattler on 30 April 2010, 11:53:18
The story is like follows:

- De Juana Chaos left prison in Spain in August 2008 after serving a term of 21 years for 25 aassinations and moved to Belfast

- Spain - for a speech he had held when leaving prison - asked Norhtern Ireland for his extradicition on a charge of glorification of terrorism.

- He got processed, and Northern Irish judge in March gave green light for his extradiction to Spain.

- During all this time he was on conditional liberty (had to be in his house from 8 p.m. to 7 a.m.) and had to report daily to the police.

- Now, after his attourneys had appelled the decison for extradiction to Spain he was waiting for the final verdict.

Yesterday it made the news, that:

- Since one month he had not reported to the police, nor was he seen in his house

- Belfast did *not* take any action when he did not report in for the first time, nor later.

- Belfast did *not* find it necessary to report this to the Spanish authorities, who got the news yesterday via BBC with a month delay.

It looks he has been on the run for a month now.

Rattler


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Koen on 30 April 2010, 17:19:52
The story is like follows:

- De Juana Chaos left prison in Spain in August 2008 after serving a term of 21 years for 25 aassinations and moved to Belfast

- Spain - for a speech he had held when leaving prison - asked Norhtern Ireland for his extradicition on a charge of glorification of terrorism.

- He got processed, and Northern Irish judge in March gave green light for his extradiction to Spain.

- During all this time he was on conditional liberty (had to be in his house from 8 p.m. to 7 a.m.) and had to report daily to the police.

- Now, after his attourneys had appelled the decison for extradiction to Spain he was waiting for the final verdict.

Yesterday it made the news, that:

- Since one month he had not reported to the police, nor was he seen in his house

- Belfast did *not* take any action when he did not report in for the first time, nor later.

- Belfast did *not* find it necessary to report this to the Spanish authorities, who got the news yesterday via BBC with a month delay.

It looks he has been on the run for a month now.

Rattler


euh...good job?  grrr


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Koen on 30 April 2010, 19:13:15
Belgian lawmakers pass burka ban

sources:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8652861.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8652861.stm)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/belgium/7653814/Belgian-MPs-vote-to-ban-the-burqa.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/belgium/7653814/Belgian-MPs-vote-to-ban-the-burqa.html)
http://www.rferl.org/content/Belgium_Lawmakers_Vote_To_Ban_Wearing_FullFace_Veil_In_Public/2028503.html (http://www.rferl.org/content/Belgium_Lawmakers_Vote_To_Ban_Wearing_FullFace_Veil_In_Public/2028503.html)


Quote
Belgium's lower house of parliament has voted for a law that would ban women from wearing the full Islamic face veil in public.

The law would ban any clothing that obscures the identity of the wearer in places like parks and on the street. No-one voted against it.

The law now goes to the Senate, where it may face challenges over its wording, which may delay it.

If passed, the ban would be the first move of its kind in Europe.

Only around 30 women wear this kind of veil in Belgium, out of a Muslim population of around half a million.

The BBC's Dominic Hughes in Brussels says MPs backed the legislation on the grounds of security, to allow police to identify people.

Other MPs said that the full face veil was a symbol of the oppression of women, our correspondent says.

Senate approval

Thursday's vote was almost unanimous with 134 MPs in support of the law and two abstentions.

It is expected to pass through the Senate without being blocked, with initial reports saying it could come into law as early as June or July.

But the Liberals and Christian Democrats - both represented in the Senate - say they will question the phrasing of the law, which could cause delays.

It will also take longer to become law if elections are called, as parliament would have to be dissolved. The Belgium government collapsed last week.

The Muslim Executive of Belgium has criticised the move, saying it would lead to women who do wear the full veil to be trapped in their homes.

Amnesty International said a ban would set a "dangerous precedent".

In a statement, the human rights group said it would "violate the rights to freedom of expression and religion of those women who wear the burqa or niqab as an expression of their identity and beliefs".

The ban would be imposed in all buildings or grounds that are "meant for public use or to provide services", including streets, parks and sports grounds.

Exceptions could be made for certain festivals.

Those who break the law could face a fine of 15-25 euros (£13-£27) or a seven-day jail sentence.



dunno what you think of it but I agree with the ban for several reasons:

1. women are equal / no discrimination
2. identification purposes when needed, asked or not asked by police (what when police want to see a 'face'? call help from a female cop?)
3. why 'hide' if you have nothing to 'hide'?

and, correct me when I'm wrong, but I don't think the Islam asks for women to be wearing a burka?


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Rattler on 30 April 2010, 22:18:23
Personally I do have a big problem with *imposing* dress rules on people by state, for various reasons, the main being that once that goes through, where is the barrier of state telling me it is illegal to wear jeans if I want to? I went nuts on the supposed "carnival ban" in Germaany in the 70s when it was supposed that wearing a mask was akin to treason, because security forces could not identify you in a (possible) Commie manifestation/demonstration?? ??  Ever crossed your mind why Franco prohibited (catholic) Carnival in this (catholic) country where I live?

Dont fall into this trap (but it looks populism, as in the 30´s, wins, at least in Belgium and Arizona...).

Seriously, being a left liberal, this is not what state should be allowed to decide by law, I was against it in the 70s when it affected me and my buddies ("Vermummungsverbot" = Mummery Prohibition, still in vigor in Germany, here a translation of the relevan WIkipedia entry: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fde.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FVermummungsverbot&sl=de&tl=en (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fde.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FVermummungsverbot&sl=de&tl=en)) , I am against it now when it is others affected (the same goes for the right of - hated from my POV! - NeoNazis expressing their screwed ideas publically, my mil life was trying to reserve this possibilty for *everybody*, else from my POV we would fall again for state dictating values where people do not have a say - Jeans? Prohibited, because we say so !!).

OTOH I will not accept  at face value the juridical claim of a muslim asking for religious liberty if he comes from a state as Marroco, where constituion grants same liberty in theory, but Christians are not allowed to build a church (that is for building Saudi Arab financed Moques), I really want him to explain why he needs a mosque here and Christians cannot hav e a church there...

For me this comes down to ideologically fueled bigotry, along the populistic line of "You came here because you wanted. Adapt to our rules (or: - openly, publically - fiight for the people that made the journey the other way around having the same rights in your country of origin if constitution has it). I, to a certain degree, go along with that, quite conscious of what constitution grants *everybody* living here.

It is a difficult decision, but in the end my take is that *we* are the people (of this country) that fought over centuries to have certain rights (and it is sacrilege from my POV to deny them as the Belgians did, wasting lifes lived of fight for what makes us: Secularism and anti- absolutism for a populistic effect: Goebells, anyone?):

Let everybody live his religion, but in our countries, make immigrants *accept* the rules that come with living in it, or leave (oh, so it is not the pace you wanted to live after all?), no ofeense or laws necessary, just a social consensus (SOCIAL = not necessary POLITICAL).

Really, lets come to our senses, if I choose to live on Mallorca as a German, I have to accept there are Malloquin rules that differ from whaat I was used to in Germany, right?

Rattler



Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Rattler on 30 April 2010, 23:01:22
1. women are equal / no discrimination
2. identification purposes when needed, asked or not asked by police (what when police want to see a 'face'? call help from a female cop?)
3. why 'hide' if you have nothing to 'hide'?

and, correct me when I'm wrong, but I don't think the Islam asks for women to be wearing a burka?

For # 1&2&3, even if I am sure this is not your intention, you are asking for a dicatorial state following a polulistic and personal impulse instead of thinking it through in depth: See my before post, Jeans prohibited? Carnival masking prohibited?

For your last sentence, indeed islam does not call for a Burkha, it depends (as so often) on how you interpret the writing, in this case it is sura 33, espicifically verse 53:

Islam Bible (Qu´uran) goes like this: http://www.submission.org/suras/sura33.html (http://www.submission.org/suras/sura33.html)

Quote
[33:53] O you who believe, do not enter the prophet's homes unless you are given permission to eat, nor shall you force such an invitation in any manner. If you are invited, you may enter. When you finish eating, you shall leave; do not engage him in lengthy conversations. This used to hurt the prophet, and he was too shy to tell you. But GOD does not shy away from the truth. If you have to ask his wives for something, ask them from behind a barrier. This is purer for your hearts and their hearts. You are not to hurt the messenger of God. You shall not marry his wives after him, for this would be a gross offense in the sight of God.

The word "barrier" has been intrpreted over the centuries, and has come down according to the Islamic religion tree to either "Yihab" or "Burkha", but what so many ignore is that it just was meant for the women of Muhammad (and none else, at least in the letter), there are several contemporary interpreters in range of an Imam that do not read the obligation in the verse.

Frankly, I have the feeling you have your bible down pat (do you? When did you last read it? Dont answer, just double check your stance...!) but do not really have read Quran (I am glad I was forced in the 60s to read it and interpret it in school, together and paralkel with Bible, Gilgamesh Epos, Buddhistic and Hinduistic sources et al. Want to take a look seriously?: http://submission.org/suras/ (http://submission.org/suras/)).

Rattler


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: the_13th_redneck on 1 May 2010, 03:37:17
We're wondering what the hell to do with North Korea.


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Koen on 1 May 2010, 15:17:11
@ Rattler, I don't see this as dress rules and neither do I want a police state where everything gets ruled by law & police or to impose laws on foreigners.

I'm not strongly into "inhabitants" and "foreigners" definitions, borders are for me not really an issue. I don't see myself as a 'Vlaming' or 'Belgian', I see myself more as a Western guy or let's say 'northern hemisphere'.

Colours or religion makes no difference in people to me. I don't know what this makes me but I'm quite 'free' in action and thinking.

A question I ask myself alot; when I was at school I couldn't wear a hat or baseballcap. That was schoollaw and I could agree.
But now all hell breaks loose when a school says no to ALL head covers! Why? Because Islamitic girls say it's for their religion. Is it really so that Islam asks girls to wear their heads covered? (yes, this is almost the same question I asked you concerning the burka)

Don't blame me for not knowing any bibles or written texts. Therefore I ask questions, to learn. I was never into religions.... because I only see negative reports when it comes to religions...war / child abuse / terrorism and much more.

respect

ps: was the 'wearing masks' in Germany not a (negative) result of the RAF?


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Rattler on 1 May 2010, 20:51:30
@ Rattler, I don't see this as dress rules -snip- ...when I was at school I couldn't wear a hat or baseballcap. That was school (dress, R.) law and I could agree.

So, you are even stating it yourself and contradicting the first half of your statement: Dress rule (law) after all! (...and being in agreement does not necessarily make a law constitutional or "right", most of the times it just shows that law makers got a sense for populism, we had that 75 yrs ago, thank you...).

The problem is: One thing is a *school* rule (we currently have the case in Spain) - as you know about the rules before you decide which school you choose, and should rules change during your stay, you could change school  - which I find OK, or a *state* rule on its citizens.

For me that brings back the memories of the long list of "rules" imposed by state on a part of the citizens because of religion (all applauded at that time as the hiyab prohibition now) that Monty brought so nicely back to our attention:

Quote
April 21, 1933 - Ritual butcher of animals for nutrition purposes ("Schächten") is forbidden.

September 15, 1935 - Jews and Non-Jews are forbidden to have non-conjugal sexual intercourse

July 2, 1937 - Jewish pupils who are still in public schools may not participate in school events

July 6, 1938 - Jews may not practice anymore as brokers, matrimonial agents and tourist guides

From Jan. 1, 1939, all Jews are required to carry "Israel" or "Sara" as additional given name.

November 28, 1938 - Jews may at certain times not stay in specified areas open to the public anymore.

October 28, 1939 - Jews must fix a Star of David on their front door.

October 23, 1939 - Jews have to wear the "Jew Star" visibly on their clothes.

etc.


Sounds familiar under the muslim aspect?

Belgium, France, Germany, Spain: For Jews, er... Muslims, ritual butcher of animals for nutrition purposes ("Schächten") is forbidden; Jews, er... Moslems, may not wear a Burkha on the street anymore, od a hiyab on public places...; mosques may not have a muezzin, etc... (I am exaggerating here, of cause, but with the Jews in Germany it started out with small things also and I fear we re on the same track, from my POV in Germany it will be ruled inconsitutional, and rightly so).

Maybe I am over sensitive to that, but we have gone through this before as a nation and people and are - rightly so - until today questioned as to "how could you let this happen?!".

Point is, it goes gradually, and liberty is lost in small fractions at a time, and even under applause of everybody present...

My take - and firmly so - is that state has not to iimpose any dress rules, positive or negative: Neither has he the right to force a certan religion to wear a signal that identifies them as belonging to it (star), nor has he the right to request that you *not* wear a signal identifying you as belonging to a religious group (what about nuns?).

was the 'wearing masks' in Germany not a (negative) result of the RAF?

Nothing (or only very little) to do with it.

In Germany we had as a result of the 68 situation a law that forced everybody who applied for being a functionary or public job holder (postmen, teachers, street cleaners and soldiers, just to name a few) to prove that he "actively" supported our constitution, else he was not allowed to distribute e.g letters or recolect garbage as  political risk.

Of cause, this was on the height of the Cold War, and directed against anything communist (or suspiciously close to it, whatver that means), and as such was actually anti-constitutional (the ironing here that law makers voluntarily broke constitution to save it...  ???).

The problem was that if you, just as an example, participated in a nonviolent and totally legal (even officially allowed and protected by police) demonstration, lets say e.g. against house speculation in Frankfurt, your picture would be taken by the "Verfassungsschutz" (Constitution Protection Police wold be the closest translation), and then the pictures would be screened in Higher, assuming that taking part in a demonstration was not what would be considered "active" support of the constitution (as you were protesting against a constitutional right on speculation, i.e. capitalism, even if you were attacking the bad side of it).

For us soldiers, but also for many others, e.g. people like Henk, this resulted in some serious questioning by authorities, and then in 80+% termination of your state job.

As a result people started wearing masks on those demonstrations, which then again triggered the law forbidding wearing masks in public, with the effect that all participants on public carnival moves were suddenly criminls (nobody had thought the consequences through).

Later (80s) it went even further: As you could not be sanctioned for a demonstrating for some idea if you did not apply violence, a law was made that qualified "standing or sitting on a street inhibiting free circulation of traffic by presence" (the classical sit-in) as "violence"...

The real irony behind all this is that the people I know and that had joined our ranks in those years were actually not asking anything else but that the constitution would be validated and valued as what it was and is: The juridical base we are standing on... We called that (and I feel part of this movement until today) "Verfassungspatriotismus" (translated, more or less as: "Patriot to the Constitution" as opposed to the "motherland"), and this was what we were fighting for in the 70s, be it as teachers, soldiers, thinkers, students or whatever.

As with all "temporary" restrictions imposed once by politics, none of those has never been lifted and still is law in vigor in Germany in all mentioned aspects (they solved the constitutional conflict problems by taking the functionary status off postmen or street cleaners and simply decreting that sit-ins will not be prosecuted anymore, can be reversed tomorrow if needed...).

The only connection with RAF terrorism is that it was the same time frame and originated by the same problems felt, nothing more.

Rattler


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Jilly on 2 May 2010, 02:52:09


In France, there is a law that foreigners can not inherit land they bought to their heirs, once they die it falls back to the government, but this is not the case in Spain.


I was just wondering where you got this info. from?  do you have a link for this?


Rattler, I am still waiting for you to answer my question.    hdbng


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Rattler on 2 May 2010, 04:31:43
In France, there is a law that foreigners can not inherit land they bought to their heirs, once they die it falls back to the government, but this is not the case in Spain.


I was just wondering where you got this info. from?  do you have a link for this?


Rattler, I am still waiting for you to answer my question.    hdbng

Sorry, Jilly, had forgotten about that one.

I do not recall where I have this information from exactly, I remember having read it over a decade ago when this was installed and I am quoting from my memory here: Apparently too many Germans bought houses in the south of France was the reason for modifying the laws there. The newspapers I read at that time were the daily "Süddeutsche Zeitung" and the weekly "Der Spiegel", I would  think it was from one of those two.

Maybe somebody is interested to do some internet research on that?

On first attempt, and not in detail, I just found that things are indeed difficult:

http://www.slowtrav.com/france/planning/real_estate.htm (http://www.slowtrav.com/france/planning/real_estate.htm) :

Quote
Inheritance rules in France are rather complex and quite restrictive as well, especially with respect to real estate. Regardless of the owner's legal residence, the disposal of biens immeubles [real estate] in France is subject to the regulations of French law. The impact of these laws can often be quite different than that to which we, in the US, are accustomed. In many cases, rules of inheritance favor children or other family members over spouses. There are ways of ensuring one's wishes after death are followed, but doing so is not a simple matter. One popular, but not uncomplicated, way to deal with inheritance issues is to purchase the property through a limited corporation called a société civile immobilière or SCI. Simply put, since shares in a company are classified in France as biens meubles [personal property], they are not governed by restrictive French inheritance and taxation regulations. Thus, the disposal of real estate purchased through such corporation is not subject to the same stringent laws as is property classified as biens immeubles. All in all, it is advisable for the prospective homeowner in France to seek legal advice regarding inheritance issues before purchasing.


In-depth information here (though, not intending to ever buy something in France, I did not read it :) ): http://www.about-french-riviera.com/french-succession-law.html (http://www.about-french-riviera.com/french-succession-law.html)

Rattler


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Koen on 2 May 2010, 10:13:51
@Rattler: true, it's a matter of where to start and where to stop and once you started how to stop it before it gets out of hand

One thing I'm sure of is that it doesn't have the same background as Germany in the '30s. In this case it has nothing to do with religion, Belgium is not at all a christian protective country.
Different religions go well together here in Belgium.

Here, for most people, it's about 2 things: 1. is that religion may not be the reason/excuse to cover your face in public places and 2. that at school religion should not be allowed to break school rules

To give you some examples that religion is not the base why this new rule will be voted:
christian crosses are being removed from schools and other public places for along time now (de-religioning places)
pictures of the Belgian King and Queen have been removed from most public places (as a result of the federalisation of Belgium)

So please do NOT get me wrong, not me neither 99% of the other Belgians have a problem with 'other' religions


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: sky2979 on 20 May 2010, 05:19:18
Latest news from my country..."IS"...that my school semester is finally over, and I really need a "Beer", ;) ehehehehehhe.... xangel


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: MontyB on 20 May 2010, 08:42:23
Well have several for me.

:)


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Koen on 22 May 2010, 11:57:14
Latest news from my country..."IS"...that my school semester is finally over, and I really need a "Beer", ;) ehehehehehhe.... xangel


well, did you survive the 'beers'?  hihi


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: the_13th_redneck on 23 May 2010, 04:32:45
South Korea went official about North Korea's sinking of the South Korean patrol ship RoKS Choenan yesterday.
Believe it or not, there are large elements in South Korea not happy with the outcome of the investigation.  You know, the ones in bed with North Korea.


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Koen on 8 June 2010, 20:40:49
VERY IMPORTANT ELECTIONS ARE COMING.....

If/when you have the time you should read it...very interesting and unique, we as Belgians find it hard to understand and difficult to know if there's still some politicians to believe and who?


http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Nation+could+split+party+leader+says/3096113/story.html (http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Nation+could+split+party+leader+says/3096113/story.html)
Quote
The head of a Flemish party that advocates the breakup of Belgium and is leading opinion polls before next month's election says the linguistically divided country could gradually disappear over coming decades............


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2010/0528/1224271297857.html (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2010/0528/1224271297857.html)
Quote
FLEMISH NATIONALISTS are leading opinion polls before the Belgian general election next month, raising the prospect of renewed political stalemate as the country prepares to assume the EU’s rotating presidency............


http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/benelux/100602/belgium-political-language-flemish-independence (http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/benelux/100602/belgium-political-language-flemish-independence)
Quote
Flanders doesn't feel like a breeding ground of radical nationalism and separatism that threatens the first break up of a western European nation since the 1940s......................


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/10227430.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/10227430.stm)
Quote
Language row looms over Belgian election


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/may/28/euro-zone-crisis-belgium (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/may/28/euro-zone-crisis-belgium)
Quote
For a long time, it seemed as if Belgium was the cuckoo in the nest of the European Union: the state that could muster neither a hard core of cohesive national pride like most of its neighbours, nor the will to split apart, as the Czechs and the Slovaks did.



Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Koen on 21 September 2010, 17:27:01
well, today is the happy 100th day celebration of a country looking for a government....

we still don't have a government in Belgium (neither have the Dutch)...

the issue? try do divide a country during the formation of new parlement!

read more and listen to: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11379323 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11379323)
or this report including the scandalous report on abuse by catholic priests and bishops (what really pisses me off!  :reddevil: ): http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/belgium/index.html?scp=1-spot&sq=belgium&st=cse (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/belgium/index.html?scp=1-spot&sq=belgium&st=cse)


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Koen on 16 October 2010, 13:22:13
well...we're still waiting for a new government....the complete show is taking over all newspapers and media..
but no new government is still better than the Dutch government who need the opoosition, the islamofobic, racist http://www.geertwilders.nl/, (http://www.geertwilders.nl/,) to do their job. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geert_Wilders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geert_Wilders))

but luckily we have an archbishop who will release a book shortly...

http://www.deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws.english/news/101014_AIDS (http://www.deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws.english/news/101014_AIDS)

Quote
Archbishop: "AIDS is a kind of justice"

The book is a collection of conversations with the Archbishop about his youth, career and ideas.
The book was compiled by the journalists Dominique Minten and Louis Mahoux, who held lengthy conversations with the Belgian Primate. It sketches his youth and career and also focuses in on problems that the Roman Catholic Church is currently wrestling with.
The Archbishop who is seen as a conservative does not pull his punches. Speaking about AIDS he says that this is a kind "immanent justice".
He compares AIDS with environmental challenges and points to man's responsibility for global warming.
The Archbishop's spokesman Jürgen Mettepenningen read the proofs of the book and voiced his concern about this passage, but André-Joseph Léonard decided to let it stand.
Jürgen Mettepenningen: "When the Archbishop spoke of homosexuality as a misunderstood form of sexuality I also sounded the alarm. I thought that this could be formulated in a better way. But I don't have the job of thinking for him. I am only his spokesman."



http://www.deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws.english/news/101015_Leonard_reacts (http://www.deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws.english/news/101015_Leonard_reacts)

Quote
The Belgian Archbishop, André Léonard, has given a press conference to comment on his controversial statement that "AIDS is a kind of justice", which caused a storm of protests. The Archbishop told reporters that he was misunderstood.
The Archbishop said that he only voiced his opinion on promiscuous sexual behaviour leading to AIDS.
"AIDS is not a punishment by God, but a logical consequence of changing sexual contacts", André Léonard explains. "I was not talking about AIDS caused by blood transfusions or as an illness that you are born with."
The Archbishop made a comparison with smoking to explain his words: "If someone gets lung cancer through smoking, the cancer is a kind of immanent justice. The person in question was aware of what he did, and his choices have a consequence."
The Archbishop added that he feels a lot of sympathy for AIDS patients and that he does not want to make a judgement. He refers to another statement in his book, where he says that these people should not be discriminated.


well done sucker  :reddevil:, with these kinds of comments you really show that you understand 1. that church is in a really bad shape these days and 2. you understand how the real world works

needless to say that these messages are THE issue we all talk about in Belgium  hdbng


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: FACman on 16 October 2010, 16:52:44
Clearly using the word 'justice' in relation to an illness, is judgemental by its very nature. Being raised a catholic, I can read between the lines. "We (the church) warned you against sinful behavior, now you suffer the consequences." Therein lies the reason my faith did not survive Vietnam.


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Koen on 21 November 2010, 15:26:12
just an update on Belgium...

still no new government  hdbng
still no catholics punished
we're having a beautiful autumn


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: FACman on 21 November 2010, 16:52:53
Quote
still no catholics punished


Im not too worried about this...I just hope that if there is a God, he did say, "Judgement is mine..." when they meet him, thats when you'll see the blasphemers get theirs.


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Koen on 21 November 2010, 17:25:49
Quote
still no catholics punished


Im not too worried about this...I just hope that if there is a God, he did say, "Judgement is mine..." when they meet him, thats when you'll see the blasphemers get theirs.


it's sad that we, and I do understand what you're saying, have to wish for the final judgement


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: stoffel on 22 November 2010, 15:33:24
Bad news here.....

The new government decided (as always) to cut the defense budget again.
This time with 650 million euros.

Now 4 weeks later the secretary of defense ( who said he would veto evry other attempt to further cut the budget) was hit by Alzheimer and forgot about his previous statement.
Now the department has to save 1 milliard euros and 10.000 people will lose their jobs!
Slowly we are destroying a once perfectly balanced and well trained army from the inside :(
The entire reservecomponent has been shut down untill january, we havent trained for 6 months.
The government has turned the clock back to 1939.


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: FACman on 22 November 2010, 16:05:39
Do any in your govt remember 1939?


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Koen on 22 November 2010, 20:51:18
yesterday evening we had the first serious talkshow on TV about the split of Belgium:

how it would/could be done?
in how many parts? Flanders - Brussels - Wallonia - German speaking territory or a combination of 1 or more
where would Brussels go? into Flanders or Wallonia or a seperate mini-state?
what with companies, football, the army, the royals etc....

you think your country is having a difficult time?

be asured, the only thing that keeps Belgium from the main pages is it's size....

there is at this moment NO WAY OUT, NO SOLUTION .... we had negotitiators, clarificators, pre-formationists and many more but we're still where we left +150 days ago at the elections....


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: stoffel on 22 November 2010, 21:22:31
No Facman :(

They even dont remember what happened in Srebrenica and they make the same mistakes over and over again :(
Nice example:
With over a 100 milliard dollars spent on weapons India has become a huge power.
It cann endanger our trade because now it has aircraftcarriers with MIG 29s.

Where we cut the budget for the defense department and fire up to 10.000 men and women we gave India 194 million euro to help their poor.......... hdbng


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: Rattler on 23 November 2010, 07:48:25
well, having India as a friend might be the sensible way to go in the situation you describe, no?

Rattler


Title: Re: What is the latest news from your country?
Post by: stoffel on 26 November 2010, 09:07:26
What I really meant is that a lot of people dont understand why we cut the defense budget, firing 10.000 people,  where we give the money we save from our budget to a country that spends many times more money for its defense than we ever can imagine here......  hdbng

Fact is that the Dutch army has to abandone units and weaponsystems again.
The department hasnt even finished restructuring from the previous cuts.
We cant fulfill the NATO donations and tasks anymore, I wonder what NATO will do next......
And as an example of how are government deals with people...
2000 new recruits whom already passed the selection and were promised a job, were told in a telephonecall last week that they couldnt join the army anymore. :whistle: