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Author Topic: What is the latest news from your country?  (Read 35908 times)
Tanker
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« Reply #40 on: 8 December 2009, 16:33:42 »
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Here in the US the news media is left wing.


I am of a different opinion here, I think the American media is a tool of any administration in power. Yes, there are occasional faux pas by the likes of Dan Rather. I only need to point out the press's silence during the lead up to the war in Irak to prove that point. They failed to vet any of the lies the administration told to get us into that war. Would a left wing media have stood by silently in support of the Republicans if they were in the pocket of the Democrats? I think not.

Quote
Where do you think you got the perception that everything the Bush administration did was linked to oil in the first place? By the media.


Are you saying that the close ties that the Bush family has with the Saudi Royal Family (who control the world's #1 oil producing country) is a fact made up by the media? And the fact that Bush started a war with the world's #2 oil producing country in spite of the fact he had already committed us to fight in Afghanistan was a mere coincidence? Right it was all a media conspiracy.




An interesting fact is that FDR, a Democrat, and a rich aristocrat(seen by some as a socialist) was the first President to establish a close relationship with the House of Saud, during WWII.  We would defend the Kingdom, and they would provide a stable source of oil.
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« Reply #41 on: 8 December 2009, 17:06:48 »
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This is a very sad story.  A little seven year old autistic boy became lost in the wood in Nova Scotia, he was eventually found, but has now died.  I feel so bad for the whole family.

Link

http://www.vancouversun.com/autistic+dies+hypothermia/2316122/story.html

 
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« Reply #42 on: 8 December 2009, 18:22:59 »
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Koen,

Here in the US the news media is left wing. They support the Democrats. Not the Republicans. There is no ban on any news media events that they don't agree to. Here the press is free to print what it likes. Even when the stories are lies, like the one Dan Rather did on Bush that cost him his job.

So, your perception of our news media "smelling of oil" is completely false. Where do you think you got the perception that everything the Bush administration did was linked to oil in the first place? By the media.

Good Hunting.

MR


my thoughts and ideas are not false neither based on US media.

if you would/could make the difference in the newspapers/media/reporting in the US and here in Belgium/Holland you would see the difference.
I'm blessed with my knowledge of languages (although I would like to speak/read more languages) so I can read/compare reports drom different countries....and what a difference they make!!!!!

did you read about the latest CIA-camp they discovered in Europe? who said there were no such camps neither CIA-flights?
at the end some guys have to quit or get fired except the guy who knows everything....the president...strange...
now you have a guy who wants to change things but you say, after 11 months, he's a failure?
he started a war...true...but not against the world but against all fuckers who oppose him....oilmen...senators who are linked and more money-men....
he has a vision but I doubt he will succeed with so many opponents....will his supporters back him when they get the feeling they'll won't get re-elected....Huh?
at the end 99% are only interested in their own egos...we'll see...I know that he has a lot of supporters here in Europe...God bless us ALL and not only the USofA mr. Bush

ofcourse there isn't a media-ban, that would be saying that democracy and 'freedom of speech' are not longer a fact but hey....who owns the media in the US?
the ban is underneath, in the skin embedded...did the mediaguys get into their position without a political influence?

where did I get the impression that Bush was oil-linked? Steve, do you ask me that question the same time you say that the media is free to report?
damn, where did he get his (re)election-money?
where did he go to war?
where are the 'weapons of mass-destruction'?
who/what supported him during election/re-election/senate-voting and more?

again...I do read and watch docus and reports and yes they are called media but overhere media has a different function....

when I see a docu on a bunch of doctors that go around the US to give people free treatment I shake my head from left to right....how is it possible that in a country as the US people can't afford medical treatment, are refused in clinics etc....USA in 2009?

and calling Obama a terrorist? well, you must be on drugs!
do you think that in 1 day he can say 'fuck' to some governments? just change the complete policy of a government in 1 day?

damn guys and girls...you really should get a better build opinion
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« Reply #43 on: 8 December 2009, 21:00:44 »
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It is called "self-censorship" within our journalistic community, and, indeed, a lot of it was present and critizised (in Europe) during the time before the Iraq war (just google it).

I should have to go deeper here (but have no time for RL reasons currently), because self censorship is not somethng to be taken lightly (personally, I believe it is necessary sometimes and in special cases which I could name from my history and if i thought long enough could even come up with an ethical reference) but it is hard to draw the thin line of not commenting or becoming accomplice in a game someone authoritative/institutional is playing with the people/audience based on lies when your job description states you have to put the finger into that wound should you happen to come across it.

Rattler
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« Reply #44 on: 8 December 2009, 21:08:41 »
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Just read it, what a tragedy, so sad indeed. What a pity the dog could nothelp him.

Just had a case in my circles also, a policeman from our village was found dead in a 15 mtrs deep well he had accidentally fallen ino in the mountains when hunting, died from starvation. He probably already died 5 weeks ago, but he was not missed as he was living single and had gone on vacations.

Incredibly cruel form to die, as it probably took weeks.

Rattler

This is a very sad story.  A little seven year old autistic boy became lost in the wood in Nova Scotia, he was eventually found, but has now died.  I feel so bad for the whole family.

Link

http://www.vancouversun.com/autistic+dies+hypothermia/2316122/story.html

 

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Mad Russian
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« Reply #45 on: 8 December 2009, 21:16:50 »
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God Bless All Europeans on the planet.....you too Koen.

Good Hunting.

MR
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« Reply #46 on: 9 December 2009, 06:07:23 »
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Couple sleep through dog theft
NZPA December 9, 2009, 4:46 pm

A Hastings couple who slept through a burglary wondered why their two english bulldogs didn't bark, then discovered the dogs had been stolen too.

Ben Epplett and Anya-Lee McLaren stopped fretting about their lost television, stereo and PS3 when they discovered their dogs missing after an overnight burglary two weeks ago, Hawke's Bay Today reported.

The dogs had been placated with food.

Miss McLaren said losing the pair was a big blow after spending so much time and money fulfilling their dream of dog ownership.

The couple bought an english bulldog online earlier this year but discovered the sale was an elaborate scam.

They eventually bought one-year-old Skye and three-month-old Draco. Miss McLaren said her partner had been hit the hardest.

"I cried ... but he's really upset. They were his best friends. He's trying to do what he can to get them back," she said.

"We don't want our stuff back, we just want our dogs more than anything."
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« Reply #47 on: 9 December 2009, 08:41:47 »
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Some way of incredible acttitude.

When a Guardia >Civil coast boat was on the run after some drug dealers they came into Gibraltar harbour. They where treated like invaders and interrogated and jailed, some days before British shot an Spanish flag.

After interrogation Spanish policemen where liberated ( it´s said without their weapons ) and our Minister sucked British authorities cock. Unbelieveble.

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« Reply #48 on: 9 December 2009, 19:45:29 »
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interesting to read:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/nov/03/obama-first-anniversary-healthcare-congress
Quote
On that improbably warm night exactly one year ago, the crowd in Grant Park, Chicago, cheered itself hoarse as Barack Obama, the newly minted president-elect of the United States, stepped on stage and announced that "change has come to America".

Of course they were cheering the passing of George Bush and the historic breakthrough of America's first black president. But the air that night was also heavy with imagining: the hordes in Grant Park, like those around the world punching the sky as they watched on TV, were picturing how different things might be with Obama in charge.

Surely the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan would soon become memories, along with Camp X-Ray at Guantánamo Bay, which the new president had promised to close. Iran would clasp the hand Obama planned to extend, while Israelis and Palestinians would heed the president's promise to work for Middle East peace the moment he took office. The economy would soon be righted, the greed-merchants of Wall Street punished and tamed, and Obama would complete the long-unfinished work of his predecessors, finally bringing to the US what most other civilised nations take for granted: basic healthcare for all. Oh, and Obama would surely do what had to be done on climate change.

Now, one year on, it can feel as if all that was a foolish mirage. The US is still fighting two wars; Guantánamo remains open, with no clear plan for its closure given that Congress has ruled that none of its inmates can be moved to the US; Iran has not yet agreed to anything; Middle East peace looks as distant as ever; the US economy is still limping, with unemployment around 10%; healthcare has provoked a congressional battle royal; and as for serious US action on climate change, don't hold your breath.

As if to dramatise the contrast, television viewers in the US can tonight flip between the hope and the reality. HBO premieres a glossy documentary, By the People, recounting the excitement of Obama's 2008 odyssey. Over on the news channels, there will be live coverage of the expected Democratic defeat in the governor's race in Virginia, offsetting the victory Obama won there a year ago, with a similar rebuff feared in New Jersey.

It would be silly to read too much into off-year election results, just as it would be to think that none of the hopes of a year ago have materialised. In fact, Obama can point to a solid start. The war in Iraq is being wound down. The economy has stabilised, thanks to a swiftly passed stimulus package worth $787bn. It may not have been enough; it may be taking too long to work. But it has helped, saving or creating more than 640,000 jobs, according to White House figures. And, with a minimum of fuss, he has put a liberal Hispanic woman on the supreme court.

Still, this is not quite the degree of change people had in mind when they danced in the streets and honked their car horns into the small hours a year ago. Why has the big shift they anticipated not come about?

The first answer sounds like a cop-out: blame the system. We imagine the US presidency to be the most powerful office on earth. But the reality is that, relatively speaking, an American president has less direct power than a British prime minister. He has no command over Congress; he cannot whip even his own party into line. They are a law unto themselves. Obama may have been utterly sincere in his desire to transform American healthcare. But he was always at the mercy of a handful of senators whose votes make the difference between success and failure.

It is one of the great paradoxes of the American system. A country that acts in so many ways like a revolutionary society – from its creation myth to the personality cult that surrounds its founding fathers – is constituted to thwart all but the most incremental change. As Anna Quindlen wrote in a Newsweek essay on Obama's first year – coverline: Yes, he can (but he sure hasn't yet) – "what our system has meant … is that very little of the big stuff gets done. It simply can't." Which is why universal healthcare has appeared on the to-do list of presidents going back as far as Teddy Roosevelt. If Obama hasn't cracked this one yet, he is merely joining a century-old club.

Some have faulted the president for failing to make good on his signature promise to heal the rift between red and blue states, to end the rancour that separates Republicans from Democrats. But here the blame surely rests not on his shoulders, nor even on the system, but on his opponents. He has reached out countless times – trying to woo Republicans by stuffing his stimulus package with tax cuts, for example – but they have repeatedly rebuffed him.

What's more, beyond Washington Obama has faced an opposition that is shocking in its vitriol. Bowing down to the twin gods of Sarah Palin and the Fox News blowhard Glenn Beck, these rightists have set about depicting Obama as a socialist, a Stalinist, a Nazi, a Muslim and a foreigner posing as a native-born US citizen. They are backed by serious corporate money, a cable TV and talk radio fraternity unconstrained by any duty to the facts, and a network of enablers in Congress. They are an implacable foe and have made Obama's promised bipartisanship impossible.

Still, none of this should let Obama off the hook for his own errors. As a candidate, he let expectations get unfeasibly high: he could only ever disappoint. More seriously, as president he has too often left a vacuum where his own plans and vision should be. He left the details of healthcare up to Congress, where things got mired and the opposition stole the initiative – forcing him to ride to the rescue, saving the day with a spellbinding speech. He pulled that trick several times as a candidate, but it will soon wear thin.

Some have said his prime failing is not to have crafted a single narrative that might bind the disparate elements of his programme, from health to the economy to climate change. (Many of us used to say the same about New Labour.) But sometimes Obama's mistakes are more basic. On Israel-Palestine he should never have issued a demand he wasn't ready to enforce: by insisting Israel freeze all settlements on the West Bank, only to back down, he has lost face in a region where face counts above all.

So Obama marks the anniversary of his election contemplating those things that have held him back, both from within and without. Despite it all, he can point to much that should hearten those who wish him well. His rolling seminar on Afghanistan suggests a president who is deliberate and thoughtful – a welcome contrast with a predecessor who underwent only a "gutcheck" before hurling thunderbolts from the sky.

And he can plausibly argue that plenty might come right sooner than we think. That healthcare bill could be ready in less than a week. If Iran says yes to the current uranium enrichment deal, Obama will secure a victory that might even justify that premature Nobel prize: defusing what could have been a cataclysmic nuclear threat without firing a shot.

Besides, Obama is not on the same timetable as us journalists. He does not need to get it right after 100 days or one year. He just needs to get it right. And for that the deadline is not November 2009 – but November 2012.

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« Reply #49 on: 9 December 2009, 20:22:17 »
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Some way of incredible acttitude.

When a Guardia >Civil coast boat was on the run after some drug dealers they came into Gibraltar harbour. They where treated like invaders and interrogated and jailed, some days before British shot an Spanish flag.

After interrogation Spanish policemen where liberated ( it´s said without their weapons ) and our Minister sucked British authorities cock. Unbelieveble.

While probably a bit crude, Solideo got it basically right, this is a major diplomatic incident between UK and Spain as the waters involved by all rules are Spanish (but the Brits seem to believe differently):

Day before yesterday at night and in dark the GC craft was doing a NATO anti-terrorist routine vigilance for a US mil Navy craft passing the strait, and when a speedboat close to it (detected by SIVE and it´s computers) did what SIVE is to detect, "strange"maneuvers", they opted to do their job and stop the vessel to ask their intentions.

Looks the guys were Narcos all right (not strange in the strait, see background below) and decided it was better to get hell out of Dodge, turning towards the Rock. GC took up pursuit (legally it is called "hot pursuit" and a right granted by all neighbour nations, they had asked guidance by superiors and were told to pursue) and followed the speed boat into Gibraltar port (the only waters that Spain recognizes legally as British waters, as the conventions signed by all partners call for 22 nm national waters, and the rock is within 8.5 - again, see background and map below).

Once there, the GC used accustic and optical signals to alert local police that was stationed on the key, then, after the Narcos disembarked they did also and pursued them on Gibraltar territory (all within the contracts between the three parties).

What happened is that the Gibraltar police (under English signs) detained not only the Narcos, but also the GC soldiers.

They were succumbed to severe interrogation (though they state they were treated correctly all the time), their arms and boat were confiscated, and 4 hours later they were sent back to Spain (w/o legal arms and boat).

Yesterday the boat and arms were officially given back after Spanish FOreign Miister phoned his counterpart and asked pardon, stating "...such an irresponsible act would not happen again.." (reminder: The GC was ding what they had been told, what was their right, and what is internationally agreed upon standard an part of the contracts between Britain, the Rock and Spain).

Looks now the GC soliders carreer comes to an end, they will be court maritalled for "...dirt spotting the image of Spain".

A shame indeed, something is going on here in the background we normal people do not see, seems Britain is taking a more and more aggressive stance against the contracts and intl. rules, reason unclear.

Fact is, as Solideo stated, they did some naval live fire exercises using floats with Spanish Flag as targets (got caught on photo, but didn´t even find it worth a mail).

That´s the incident, for the people that do not know so much about European quarrels, here the background:

Locatiion: Strait of Gibraltar, separating Atlantic from Med, Africa to the SOUTH, Spain to the NORTH, and the rock of Gibraltar in the middle:







Background:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar

The other side sees it differently of cause (pass the URL for the translator http://translate.google.com/?hl=en#en|es|): http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2009/12/09/espana/1260372274.html

What seems to be sure is that the Spanish Government, for reasons unknown, succumbs to irreal claims of the British Goverment and even asks pardon despite having been bullied for the last month there in what appears in the media her as a steeping up of claiming Spanish national waters for the Brits by them...:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1229580/British-ambassador-forced-apologise-Royal-Navy-ship-used-Spanish-flag-target-practice.html

Strange, at least.

Rattler

« Last Edit: 9 December 2009, 20:48:52 by Rattler » Logged

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« Reply #50 on: 10 December 2009, 08:26:34 »
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Thanks Ratt, you explained it with a fluid comments I cannot do with my shit English use of that language.
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« Reply #51 on: 10 December 2009, 14:11:52 »
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The British still hold 'The Rock' only out of stubbornness, as it is of little tactical value to them any longer. Modern weaponry has made it's use as a fortress redundant. One would think as a member nation of the EU, that they would return it to Spain, while Spain would allow a British naval base for perpetuity. After all, they are allies, no?
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« Reply #52 on: 10 December 2009, 22:11:54 »
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The British still hold 'The Rock' only out of stubbornness, as it is of little tactical value to them any longer. - snip- After all, they are allies, no?

It still is: It´s a major point for their nuclear subs to "get emergency repairs" that leave them for month stationed there (under severe diplomatic pressure from Spain as in theory they are excluded by contract, google a few of the cases in the last 15 yrs, here an example: http://www.euroresidentes.com/Blogs/2005/02/british-nuclear-submarine-in-gibraltar.htm).

Whatever you say, the Brits tightened the screw another notch yesterday:

A GC vessel was again pursuing a suspected Narco speed boat, when suddenly a British Naval vessel (type not specified) cut their path trying to seperate them from the pursuit (the GC managed to doge the coliision by what they describe "one yard" and had the Brits following behind until catching the suspects - which turned out to be legal, just their boat was illegal), this in waters that are not even claimed by the Brits to be theirs (1 nm from Algeciras port).

As another spin, when giving back the GC speedboat of the above etione incident, yesterday, thy refused to hand it back within 2 nm of the Rock and forced the GC to move 1.5 nm pressuring with two (!) frigates to a point where they gave back boat and arms. pne frigate circeling so fast that the waves it produced almost made it physical impossilbe to take over the boat...

Now, one is asking oneself, what is happening there? The sudden (many years it was quiet) Brit aggressiveness makes no obvious sense at all at first glance: Incidents every day, harrssing and hassling, almost always when narcos are followed...

Might there be a faint chance that someone within the Brits authorities is part of a big coke deal (to put an example, could be dope as well) and has ordered to protect "his" expected shipment that would make him millionaire? Stranger things have been seen happening...

Just thinking aloud,

Rattler
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« Reply #53 on: 11 December 2009, 12:48:06 »
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Quote
little tactical value


Nuclear Submarines are hardly tactical assets, and a British naval base would cover their repairs. As for the diplomatic issue of having nuclear vessels at the base, sounds like Spain needs to grow a pair and make the Brits pay for their arrogance via some mechanism in the EU. If that fails start arming the monkeys on 'The Rock', that should make the Brits a little nervous. (j/k)
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« Reply #54 on: 11 December 2009, 16:04:06 »
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Sorry, Koen, but is this article supposed to be one of the balanced/alternative views you get?  This is no different from what one can easily get in the US.  It is also equally as biased and mis-informed:  The writer shares the same views as the President and the Left in the US about what 'good' policy is; the writer uses biased US sources; the writer is mis-informed about how the US system works.
interesting to read:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/nov/03/obama-first-anniversary-healthcare-congress
Quote
On that improbably warm night exactly one year ago, the crowd in Grant Park, Chicago, cheered itself hoarse as Barack Obama, the newly minted president-elect of the United States, stepped on stage and announced that "change has come to America".

Of course they were cheering the passing of George Bush and the historic breakthrough of America's first black president. But the air that night was also heavy with imagining: the hordes in Grant Park, like those around the world punching the sky as they watched on TV, were picturing how different things might be with Obama in charge.

Surely the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan would soon become memories, along with Camp X-Ray at Guantánamo Bay, which the new president had promised to close. Iran would clasp the hand Obama planned to extend, while Israelis and Palestinians would heed the president's promise to work for Middle East peace the moment he took office. The economy would soon be righted, the greed-merchants of Wall Street punished and tamed, and Obama would complete the long-unfinished work of his predecessors, finally bringing to the US what most other civilised nations take for granted: basic healthcare for all. Oh, and Obama would surely do what had to be done on climate change.

Now, one year on, it can feel as if all that was a foolish mirage. The US is still fighting two wars; Guantánamo remains open, with no clear plan for its closure given that Congress has ruled that none of its inmates can be moved to the US; Iran has not yet agreed to anything; Middle East peace looks as distant as ever; the US economy is still limping, with unemployment around 10%; healthcare has provoked a congressional battle royal; and as for serious US action on climate change, don't hold your breath.

As if to dramatise the contrast, television viewers in the US can tonight flip between the hope and the reality. HBO premieres a glossy documentary, By the People, recounting the excitement of Obama's 2008 odyssey. Over on the news channels, there will be live coverage of the expected Democratic defeat in the governor's race in Virginia, offsetting the victory Obama won there a year ago, with a similar rebuff feared in New Jersey.

It would be silly to read too much into off-year election results, just as it would be to think that none of the hopes of a year ago have materialised. In fact, Obama can point to a solid start. The war in Iraq is being wound down. The economy has stabilised, thanks to a swiftly passed stimulus package worth $787bn. It may not have been enough; it may be taking too long to work. But it has helped, saving or creating more than 640,000 jobs, according to White House figures. And, with a minimum of fuss, he has put a liberal Hispanic woman on the supreme court.

Still, this is not quite the degree of change people had in mind when they danced in the streets and honked their car horns into the small hours a year ago. Why has the big shift they anticipated not come about?

The first answer sounds like a cop-out: blame the system. We imagine the US presidency to be the most powerful office on earth. But the reality is that, relatively speaking, an American president has less direct power than a British prime minister. He has no command over Congress; he cannot whip even his own party into line. They are a law unto themselves. Obama may have been utterly sincere in his desire to transform American healthcare. But he was always at the mercy of a handful of senators whose votes make the difference between success and failure.

It is one of the great paradoxes of the American system. A country that acts in so many ways like a revolutionary society – from its creation myth to the personality cult that surrounds its founding fathers – is constituted to thwart all but the most incremental change. As Anna Quindlen wrote in a Newsweek essay on Obama's first year – coverline: Yes, he can (but he sure hasn't yet) – "what our system has meant … is that very little of the big stuff gets done. It simply can't." Which is why universal healthcare has appeared on the to-do list of presidents going back as far as Teddy Roosevelt. If Obama hasn't cracked this one yet, he is merely joining a century-old club.

Some have faulted the president for failing to make good on his signature promise to heal the rift between red and blue states, to end the rancour that separates Republicans from Democrats. But here the blame surely rests not on his shoulders, nor even on the system, but on his opponents. He has reached out countless times – trying to woo Republicans by stuffing his stimulus package with tax cuts, for example – but they have repeatedly rebuffed him.

What's more, beyond Washington Obama has faced an opposition that is shocking in its vitriol. Bowing down to the twin gods of Sarah Palin and the Fox News blowhard Glenn Beck, these rightists have set about depicting Obama as a socialist, a Stalinist, a Nazi, a Muslim and a foreigner posing as a native-born US citizen. They are backed by serious corporate money, a cable TV and talk radio fraternity unconstrained by any duty to the facts, and a network of enablers in Congress. They are an implacable foe and have made Obama's promised bipartisanship impossible.

Still, none of this should let Obama off the hook for his own errors. As a candidate, he let expectations get unfeasibly high: he could only ever disappoint. More seriously, as president he has too often left a vacuum where his own plans and vision should be. He left the details of healthcare up to Congress, where things got mired and the opposition stole the initiative – forcing him to ride to the rescue, saving the day with a spellbinding speech. He pulled that trick several times as a candidate, but it will soon wear thin.

Some have said his prime failing is not to have crafted a single narrative that might bind the disparate elements of his programme, from health to the economy to climate change. (Many of us used to say the same about New Labour.) But sometimes Obama's mistakes are more basic. On Israel-Palestine he should never have issued a demand he wasn't ready to enforce: by insisting Israel freeze all settlements on the West Bank, only to back down, he has lost face in a region where face counts above all.

So Obama marks the anniversary of his election contemplating those things that have held him back, both from within and without. Despite it all, he can point to much that should hearten those who wish him well. His rolling seminar on Afghanistan suggests a president who is deliberate and thoughtful – a welcome contrast with a predecessor who underwent only a "gutcheck" before hurling thunderbolts from the sky.

And he can plausibly argue that plenty might come right sooner than we think. That healthcare bill could be ready in less than a week. If Iran says yes to the current uranium enrichment deal, Obama will secure a victory that might even justify that premature Nobel prize: defusing what could have been a cataclysmic nuclear threat without firing a shot.

Besides, Obama is not on the same timetable as us journalists. He does not need to get it right after 100 days or one year. He just needs to get it right. And for that the deadline is not November 2009 – but November 2012.



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Jilly
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« Reply #55 on: 11 December 2009, 16:04:31 »
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I love reading your posts FACman.  It always makes me smile the way you put things.   Cool
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Rattler
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« Reply #56 on: 11 December 2009, 18:57:49 »
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I love reading your posts FACman.  It always makes me smile the way you put things.   Cool

Second that. Keep them coming!  Smiley

As for the issue, I meant *strategical"* and not tactical, simply because as you already pointed out, long before my life time had indeed lost all tis tactical value.

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« Reply #57 on: 11 December 2009, 19:13:12 »
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Quote
Sorry, Koen, but is this article supposed to be one of the balanced/alternative views you get?


well, do we ever know who's right/wrong/neutral?

I quoted this article to keep a good discussion ongoing and to read the replies of US members, I never said this was THE truth for me...I'm always open for different views, certainly from people living IN the country...

What interests me the most in the US discussions is the is the difference in POV's of inhabitants and the Europeans

The main reason to quote this text is that it clearly says that you can't solve in 1 year what others have done wrong in the previous 8 years and to that I say 'acknowledged'.
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Rattler
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« Reply #58 on: 11 December 2009, 20:38:57 »
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Koen, you *quoted* that article allright, but as you did not offer any opinon on it (except "interesting": Actually, everything is "interesting"...) you do not really discuss, posting an article w/o comment usually stands for "Here what I am thinking" (if it were not so the quoter surely would have stated otherwise) and you will have to live with people assuming that your quopte represents your opinion.

What do you want to see discussed, and between whom?

Opinions of *others* that we all can find on the net (like this article, you did not even put it into context or explained *why* you found it interesting) discussed by forumites, or *your* take on life and situations/cricumstances as described in the article discussed by your co-forumites?

There is a reason why general netiqette and most forums frown upon uncommented quotations, it simply does *not* further a discussion as far as forum members are concerned, it is just like saying "Oh, look!" and pointing to the sky/horizon/ground and then run, leaving the other people around you wondering: "er..., what?!?"... Think about a bar, over a beer, when suddenly someone says: "You know, the other day I saw a white cat and a black cat, and they were crossing the street in oppsite directions..." and then goes back to musing over his beer, it is the same effect.

From my POV it would have been much more interesting and fruitful to read your last post (reply to Alan) right below/above the quoted article for starters and when you posted, er,  quoted it, because *there* you state what *you* think and intended by quoting, and not have required us others to be mind readers second guessing you.

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Quote
Sorry, Koen, but is this article supposed to be one of the balanced/alternative views you get?


well, do we ever know who's right/wrong/neutral?

I quoted this article to keep a good discussion ongoing and to read the replies of US members, I never said this was THE truth for me...I'm always open for different views, certainly from people living IN the country...

What interests me the most in the US discussions is the is the difference in POV's of inhabitants and the Europeans

The main reason to quote this text is that it clearly says that you can't solve in 1 year what others have done wrong in the previous 8 years and to that I say 'acknowledged'.

« Last Edit: 11 December 2009, 20:50:49 by Rattler » Logged

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« Reply #59 on: 11 December 2009, 21:50:13 »
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Ratter, I really liked the way you displayed those maps and the whole description.  You would have made a great teacher.  Were you ever a teacher?
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