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Author Topic: Tonight 2000Z the world will stop...  (Read 8226 times)
Rattler
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« on: 29 November 2010, 09:47:48 »
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...for two hours and for the 500.000.000 people that will view the Barca-Madrid "classico" of the Spanish Soccer League world wide (transmitted to 50+ nations).

This time, yes, it will probably the match of the decade (as well as the retunr match in 4 month), for various reasons:

- Firstly, different from the last years, Madrid has improved a lot under the auspice of Mourinho and now is a very valid opponent

- At the same time, the cycle of Barcelona as best football team of the world slowly starts to end as its protagonists  become older (especiall Xavi, one starts to note his 27 years, he is still on the zenith of his genial game vision, but probably the last year so)

We will see two completely different styles tonight, but both teams will play full attack: Barcelona because it does not know to do differently, Madrid because its their only option and they now got the team for it. It will be grace and intelligence versus effectivity.

Both teams enter the match in top form and in apogeo of their capabilities, with impressive numbers: Madrid has one point more since day 2 of the league, both teams are #1 in their respective Champions League groops and qulified as such for eigths with two more matches to go. Barca last weekend made history (once more) by beating Almeria 8:0, Madrid has two sets already and made a 5:1 last weekend versus Sporting. Madrid is the better team by statistics (but did not meet the biggies yet, tonight the first real test): Most goals scored (Barca held this for the last 3 years) and least goals caught )Also Barca held this in the last 2 years), a sign for coming change of hegemony in soccer?

Madrid has improved its team a lot this year: With the German Özil they now have a player that can match Iniesta in Barca, who has grace, technique, vision and - at his 20 yrs - speed to present his ideas on the pitch. Xavi Alonso, together with the Argentinian Di Maria, form a deadly midfield that - while different - does not have tohide much behind Barcas Xavi/Iniesta combi. Christiano Ronaldo has finally found his form and is scoring as much as Barcas Messi, just the (indirect) duel between those two best soccer players on the planet will be worthwile watching.

When we look at the Misters, Guardiola and Mourinho are a pair that are batteling for a long time: Mourinho never won against Barca in its own turf, but eliminated them twice from champions (with Chelsea, and with Milan last year), Guardiola won 4 times against Mourinho verus 3 times at reverse. One the quiet gentleman, the other the born provocateur (he is now, even before the match, attacking the referee Irrutalde for being "Barcelonaphile") ho in his press conferences talks about anything but soccer...

Irrutalde (the ref) also is a personality: A good ref by any means, but also a show man with whom humor and bad humor seem to be his only two mind states, nothing in the middle. Also he *loves* to spray cards around, not the best thing for a classico where the ref should not too much influence in the outcome... One thing is sure: Irrutalde will not be invisible on the field.

In total, I think that for the first time in years Madrid has a good chance to win a classic in Barcelonas turf, with Mourinhos perfect defense system and its great creative power in front of the enemies goal. Who wins this match will probably become the winner of the whole league, as both teams dont slip afterwards and only the next (in Madrid) classic could turn things around at the last instant.

Ladies and Gentlemen, the match is served, if you like soccer (or dont understand it) you should not miss this match tonight!

Rattler
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« Reply #1 on: 29 November 2010, 11:03:27 »
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we got live coverage here  Brede lach Brede lach

I hope Ronaldo doesn't go into 'schwalbe' mode again....  Onbeslist

I have a little favouritism for Real....
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« Reply #2 on: 29 November 2010, 15:29:53 »
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Sorry guys, loved to play the game, but hate watching.
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« Reply #3 on: 29 November 2010, 17:11:00 »
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Matt,

Whats the status with the two players whom received the red card against Ajax on purpose, so they dont miss the next round games?
Has Uefa already punished them?
I havent heart anything anymore accept that Uefa started an investigation.
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« Reply #4 on: 29 November 2010, 18:44:13 »
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Sorry guys, loved to play the game, but hate watching.

I also do love to play chess and hate watching, but seeing an Anand vs. Karpov is well worth it if you *love* the sport as such (interestingly, also if you dont love it at all, has to be one of those extremes to really enjoy).

There is a high probabillity you will regret not having watched it, later...

Rattler
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« Reply #5 on: 29 November 2010, 19:24:12 »
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Matt,

Whats the status with the two players whom received the red card against Ajax on purpose, so they dont miss the next round games?
Has Uefa already punished them?
I havent heart anything anymore accept that Uefa started an investigation.

Got that wrong in the facts (but right in effect).

It was a typical "Mourinho" thingy: Guarding his mouth by hand against lip readers he gave orders (presumably) for Sergio Ramos and Xavi Alonso to provoke a *2nd yellow* card and consequent expulsion, not (as you assumed) to not miss the next round match, but to come in CLEAN of yellows into the eigths finals (UEFA rules are like that: Double yellow cancels yellow).

A typical Mourinho theatre: Very unsportive (auto-expulsion is prohibited by the rules), and as Dudek (the 2nd goalie, whom Mou instructed) was not clever enough to hide his face when he transmitted Mous orders to Casillas (here the lip readers got his discourse all in writing: "Mou orders to instruct Sergio and Xavi to search a second yellow"), now UEFA is officially "investigating" the issue. Given that all teams do that (if not as obvious as Madrid in this case) we do not expect more than a slap on the cheek of the people involved (Mou, Dudek, Casillas, Ramos, Alonso).

Still, it *was* theatre again, Mou occupying the headlines as the "Grand Provocateur who always wins", and soccer as sport has to pay the price.

No wonder Mou (and Ronaldo 2nd) are the most hated personalities in Camp Nou (and in whole Spain according to a recent poll: In every pitch the chant goes - for the two - "Este Portugues, que hijoputa es"... which I personally find abhorrent  hdbng), expect to hear a lot of yelling )and the above chant) when Mou ot Ronaldo enters the Camp Nou and also whenever Ronaldo touches the ball (personally I think this is counter productive, just will raise their level of testosterone, always a bad thing if you play at home with 1/3 more testosterone in your blood than the opponent, equalling it actually and so giving away your home turf advantage... but who am I to teach the massess...  whistle).

If Barca loses, though, be sure to see Madrid players getting another shower as the guys from Milan: When eliminated by Milan (though they won) in Barcelona, and after Mou(rinho) went to Pep (Guardiola) during the match telling him what a "son of a bitch" he was without being sanctioned (he even patted his head), the gardeners of Camp Nou decided to turn on the grass sprinklers when Milan was still (with Mou on his knees like praying, all theatre) celebrating their triumph... (though they had lost 3:1):

Here the relevant clip, in Spanish titled "What you did not see on TV" (it keeps telling me "An error occured" while on the tube it is well visible: If this happens to you, click on the link below the vid to see it on youtube):

Barcelona - Inter lo que no se vio por TV


Everybody enjoy tonight, I have to run (we have a funeral which was - one more indicator soccer *IS* the new religion - displaced from 2100 to 2000 JULIET to not interfere with the match, and as the church is right opposite the bar where I am going to watch it it will be full of mourners by 0815 and I wont find a seat if I am not early).

Life is a bitch sometimes, but I would give everything to see this match tonight (though I sincerely fear I might get home with a really bad stomach ache, watching - as always - the match in a Madrid bar, if Barca loses I will have to leave head bowed and on top congratulating everybody there in person; but then, ]having seen the long faces for the last three years and being alive to tell has to be paid back sometimes, no? Smiley Only a coward would hide in this situation...), so I will take this one hour of waiting for the match in true gentlemans posture facing all those "Merengues" with a steady and unperturbed eye...
Code:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDAHobvsjl8#

"Visca el Barca!" (ever wondered how I as German became a ferociious Barca fan? Easily explained: When they showed the soccer matches of Europe in the ´60s the Barca colors came out black on the then BW tellies, so when Barca was playing Madrid - THE WHITES -  I as a 10 years old of course went with the "BLACK REBELS" - who actually even were it during the Franco dictaorship, even if they as today wore  actually blue-wine_red. Check the vid to see what I am talking about):

Visca Barça - We are the Champions - Queen


Rattler

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« Reply #6 on: 29 November 2010, 22:15:55 »
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Well for me its the second club in the world after Ajax.
Main reason is the influence former Ajax players had in the club starting with 1 of the greatest players of Dutch soccerhistory, J.C..
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« Reply #7 on: 29 November 2010, 22:50:47 »
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quite a battle!

and indeed, a strange ref.... he would score well in the theatre  smallclap

Barca is alot stronger and as in many cases when Real gets into trouble they can't get a team together....  cry
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« Reply #8 on: 29 November 2010, 22:53:18 »
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Quote
starting with 1 of the greatest players of Dutch soccerhistory, J.C.


Im not Dutch?
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« Reply #9 on: 29 November 2010, 23:03:03 »
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starting with 1 of the greatest players of Dutch soccerhistory, J.C.


Im not Dutch?


still, Dutch or not... you should know... maybe.... perhaps  Tong
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« Reply #10 on: 29 November 2010, 23:28:47 »
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still, Dutch or not... you should know... maybe.... perhaps


Nope, Im an American, though I loved to play the game, I didnt follow it. Remember, for most of my life, watching professional soccer was simply not possible. The only reason I knew how to play at all, was because of my Catholic Schooling as a young man. Public schools did not teach soccer, but the Catholic schools did. Though I was never a star player, I had basic skills from my youth that served me well enough to play on club teams (Portugese, Spanish or South American)
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« Reply #11 on: 29 November 2010, 23:35:14 »
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still, Dutch or not... you should know... maybe.... perhaps



Nope, Im an American, though I loved to play the game, I didnt follow it. Remember, for most of my life, watching professional soccer was simply not possible. The only reason I knew how to play at all, was because of my Catholic Schooling as a young man. Public schools did not teach soccer, but the Catholic schools did. Though I was never a star player, I had basic skills from my youth that served me well enough to play on club teams (Portugese, Spanish or South American)



I forgive ya  congrats

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Cruyff

btw, 73' mins and 4-0 is too much for me  cry... off to bed  waa
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« Reply #12 on: 30 November 2010, 01:21:08 »
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Stoffel: JFYI: 5:0 was the final result, for what you missed (AND for FACman!!) here the goals/highlights again (English commentary):

Barcelona vs Real Madrid 5-0 29/11/10


EDIT: Google/Youtube keeps deleting this vid for copyright reasons, so I have to change it constantly, off and on you might find one w/o English comment acording to what I find...

Well, dont know what to say: Of course, Johan Cruyff is the mentor of the Barcelona we see today and of all modern, youth based soccer that he started with Ajax (Amsterdam) youth academy, the first in Europe. Not surprisingly, he is honrary president of Barca, honory citizen of Barcelona AND Catalonia, and also of course his "Dream Team" will never be forgotten (though this Barca has beaten all his records by now). For the people that have such a long memory, here a few scenes from the 1991 "Dream Team", even if the ball does not enter (they in the end won the match 4:0, the vid was probably posted by a Madrid lover  Grijns) you can see where the base of todays Barca lays. (Intersting side note, the left wing (Laudrup) is today the Mister of Mallorca, with the before ignored youth of the team playing and with 21 points staying at position 6 after 13 matches with all the "good" players sold... Mallorca is the only team that did not lose neither to Madrid nor Barca at their turf, and they also won against Valencia at their turf).

Now, back to the match we saw tonight, dont really know what to say... Too much emotions, happy with this historical 5:0 from a "Culé" POV (for me now it it clear: Barca will win the league, and the preposterous Ronaldo and "Mou" are more than put in their place), but not happy with the match at all:

There was no statistics featured during the match, but my guess would be that Barca had a sound 65+ percent of ball possesion, no way Madrid could even try to play when not having the ball. While this is the signature of both Barca and the Spanish National Team that became World Champion (we had 8 of the WCs with Barca and 5 WCs with Madrid tonight on the pitch), Mourinho had shown in other matches that he had a clear undersanding of this problem and knew how to treat it: Pressing upwards and provoke pass errors to take the ball and couter attack.

This definitely did not happen tonight: Neither Özil, Xavi Alonso, De Maria (but he more than the others mentioned) and even less C. Ronaldo did appear on the pitch. No agressive pressing, no stealing of the ball, no passes that went well (a bit understandable from the being behind 2:0 after 15 minutes POV when the players mentally give the match as lost vs. this Barca, but not understandable in the second half when in theory the coach should have them set straight again), in summary: Madrid DID NOT EXIST on the pitch, and seriously so (NOT).

A disaster from the fans POV, because this was a well oiled machine playing from memory slaughtering an innocent group of people that also happened to be on the pitch at the same time when a soccer match was played, without even the faintest idea what was going on.

Not in my faintest dreams would I have imagined such a result, and I was even waiting for Ronaldos "pimpy" ("chulo" in Spanish, dont know to translate any better) challenge after Barcas 0:8 after last weekends match ("...lets see whether they mark 8 on Monday") to become his personal worst nightmare (5:0 is pretty close). Also, I remember yesterdays press conference when "Mou" stated: "If they even manage to score 4 goals, Casillas (the Madrid world best goalie) will be fired", wonder what he will say tomorrow (the journos will press him on this for sure...  hihi).

For me, after seeing the CL matches of Madrid and their attitude on the pitch tonight there are only two explanations, both are devastating for Madrid:

- EITHER Madrid simply cannot play high level soccer with the people it has (they were an unorganized group of bystanders most of the match)

- OR they were on purpose playing against the mister (not unknown in this club where you can get fired despite winning league AND CL, like e.g. it happened to Del Bosque - who this year as national trainer brought us the WC). Those players (and they are all bought, remember that any potential oil magnate wanting to buy the team would have to spill 2.000 Millions of Euros to buy the 11 players on the pitch tonight) know their economic power, and if they decide they dont want a Mister they lose matches scandalously (and this 5:0 *is* a major scandal in our soccer=religion world) until the brass is obliged to sack him, after which they suddenly perform top again...

Anyway, from the political POV (and a Barca.Madrid still *is* politics just 30 years after Franco) Fascism lost tonight to Socialism, and our conservatives who yesterday all claimed a clear Madrid win coming up "as a sign that political change is going to come" will have to rethink their picture of the nation´s state of affairs and wiggle to position themselves anew.

Back to the match, some thing that went badly with me was Pep Guardiolas (Barcelona´s Mister) dropping the ball when Ronaldo was picking it up (Pep should have by rules received a yellow for that) and the tension he created with this when it was absolutely unnecessary (Barca was leading 2:0 at that time). A "short circuit" a bit like the head bang of Zidane in the WC 2006, understandable maybe after the pressure Mou had given him with all his strange challenges during last week, but unperdonnable (English comment EDIT: Not in this version Google deleted along and I replaced):

Ronaldo push Guardiola - Barcelona Vs Real Madrid


Off to bed after a memorable match that opens more questions than it solved, from all angles,

Rattler

Himno FC Barcelona --!!força barça!! ?


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« Reply #13 on: 30 November 2010, 18:33:09 »
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Very well done Matt!!! smallclap

I really enjoyed the way that arrogant madrid ......... were beaten up. champ champ smallclap smallclap
It was about time  smallclap smallclap smallclap smallclap smallclap
Thanks for posting the goals.
I havent been able to watch them.
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« Reply #14 on: 30 November 2010, 18:36:14 »
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Videos are blocked Bedroefd
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« Reply #15 on: 30 November 2010, 19:06:32 »
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Videos are blocked Bedroefd



   
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http://www.warandtactics.com/smf/about-wat-rules-updates-news/video-problems/
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« Reply #16 on: 1 December 2010, 21:30:35 »
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Videos are blocked Bedroefd

Thats Google/Youtube for you (they claim copyright infringement for deleting it all the time) Now (momentarily) FIXED.... Until they delete it again.

I will keep an eye on it and change when they delete (also, bought the DVD of the match today, so I can make my own vid for here, but it will lack English comment).

Rattler
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« Reply #17 on: 1 December 2010, 23:31:26 »
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Okay, now two days later, with time to reflect and having seen the match again with a less emotional impact as when live, here my in-depth analysis:

- This hurt more than the 2:6 in the "Bernabeu", because it was way better soccer we saw (never mind the result).

- Frankly, I think it was the best Barca match I *ever* saw, though I did not realize it when watching it live (though I remember my comment "... and at what time does play Madrid tonight?...", so I *must* have had a hunch)

- Mou has definitely stopped his "pimpyness", I think his phrase of "...it is a true scandal how all teams give their matches away versus Barca to hurt us..." from the press conference after the 8:0 versus Almeria have gotten stuck in his throat somehow, fine with me... Smiley

What I really see now (and did not see consciously then) is based on three simple observations:

- Barca had 9 (!) players on the pitch that were trained from 12 yrs old in their "cantera" (school, literally it is translated to "quarry"): Valdez, Messi, Bojan, Jeffren, Xavi, Iniesta etc... Madrid, OTOH, had only Casillas from their "cantera" on the pitch.

- Barca had players of 3 nations on the pitch, Madrid of 8

- The most famous soccer paper here in Spain (and "Merengues" = Madrid to the bones), "Marca", always analyses games on a player base, dubbing them "The Crack", "The Worst", "The Cruel", "The Dandy" etc... Now, for Madrid, "The Crack" was "Pepe", but, for the first time in their 74 years history as a soccer paper, for Barcelona they defined "The Crack" simply as: "Barcelona. We cannot attribute this victory to any specific player without mentioning all others at the same time. We are sorry for that, but thats the way it is. Heavenly.".

This makes me reflect: What we have seen on Monday was (and Stoffel was on the right track here) an "idea" of soccer winning verus a group of people, dressed in white, that has no base ideologically (and I mean this word in the sense as coming from "idea", they have had Franco´s picture of a state as an idea maybe, but I doubt this holds true nowadays except maybe for the oldest fans).

"The United States" is an idea. "Democracy" is an idea. All great things are based on ideas (hence we have "ideologies").

Now, this Barca we see today is the extrapolation of an "idea", of the IDEA of Johan Cruyff and Carlos Rexach. They, in the late ´80s, defined the way soccer should be transformed to an art, and Pep Guardiola (who was a "Dream Team" player on the pitch at the time of Cruyff 91-93) has found a way to transform this idea into something transcendental, something I am sure we will not see in my life time again: Art. Sports as art, soccer as art.

Madrid, on the other hand, spends a lot of money (over 500 Millions in the last two seasons) to have the best players on the pitch (they try to always buy "Golden Ball" winners), to have the best Misters, but there is no sense of a custom "idea" behind except maybe "The Result" (and this works against Depor, Valencia, Ajax, or Bayern).

Once this team (Madrid) meets a team with a true "idea" that conforms the players into a part of a greater entity, they have nothing to offer. Where Barca players, with solidarity and almost ego-less sacrifice (Messi this time did the "Xavi" instead of the "Messi" and vice versa), play a team sport from memory, based on intuition and - of course - high technical level (anybody realized that in the first goal Xavi - in full sprint - receives the ball behind his back and lops it over his head on his striking foot?), Madrid has nothing more to offer than its players (undoubted) indiviual class, and this simply is not enough:

Madrid came into this match undefeated in 26 games (they lost the last match in the Classic in Madrid versus Barcelona, last year  waa ), with one point more than this Barca, but when they were on the pitch, they had no "idea" to defend or fight for. Ronaldo: Anihilated by his ego. Özil: Not present. Alonso: Disturbed. Di Maria: On the wrong side. etc. ...

Barca, on the other hand, had trained years (for not to say decades) with ups and downs (the dutch player/trainer phase did not work out when they bought all from Ajax) to perfect Cruyffs idea of soccer as art, starting with young age, preferably pre-school (Messi) and having the same system played through all age classes up to the first team. A lot of sacrifice, all for an "idea", transcendental as it might be. This Barca cannot play any other soccer, win or lose, you will never se them with 5 defenders as Madrid on Monday (Mou erred in this: Either 8 or 4, punch not slap).

It culminated (for me, at least) in this magnificent display of what we are dreaming about in front of our inner eye when we talk about "soccer" (as an idea).

Maybe (as for me actually almost all in soccer) this serves as a transcendental lesson to be learned for other aspects of life, outside of sports.

This all said, I am not the only one on this line of thought: The famous soccer comedy "Crackovia" (sorry, in Catalan all, but found it with English subtitles) had it already a year ago when Florentino (president of Madrid) waved his credit card to buy Christiano Ronaldo and Kaká, and they (ficticiously) confronted him with Johan Cruyff (sorry, 15 secs of advertisment before the sketch):

Crackovia - Florentino and Cruyff [ENGLISH SUBS]


If you follow this kind of stuff there are more revelations (premonitions? See how transcendental soccer is??  hihi), here one from three years ago, a duel between "Mou" and "Pep" about ideas (what people sometimes forget is that when Riikhart left "Mou" was the candidate for Barcas Mister, only the total outcry of all fans made the committee rectify -rightly so, as we saw on Monday):

Crackovia - Guardiola and Mourinho singing [ENGLISH SUBS]


Its the idea, stupid!

Visca Barca!

Rattler
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« Reply #18 on: 2 December 2010, 17:47:25 »
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That is some HILARIOUS stuff.
And congratulations to Barca.  If there are two football personalities I cannot stand it is Mourinho and Fake Ronaldo.  Now that they're both at Fake Madrid...
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« Reply #19 on: 2 December 2010, 18:22:02 »
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Yeah I wholeheartedly agree with youy Redneck.  xangel
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My topics are about my personal opinion, my thoughts and what I think. They do not reflect the official opinion of the ministry of defense of the Netherlands.
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