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Author Topic: They needed 12: Official South Africa WC 2010 Thread  (Read 31514 times)
Rattler
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« Reply #80 on: 12 July 2010, 12:45:21 »
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Müller is a genious, and the German team the future. Very well recognized by the FIFA dinosurs.

Forlan is n ace. Even Robben versus Spain did his best match going ut of his (wy beyond) limits, but Casillas - San Iker !!! - appeared with all the team mate knowledge about him nd neutralized his two 100% chances: Madrid should *never* have sold him.

Müller, Forln, Robben, Xavi and Busquets hve been the best players in this WC, of cause only two cn be given an award.

Rattler
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« Reply #81 on: 12 July 2010, 13:29:56 »
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Rattler,

I spoke in general, where did you see me stating it were exclusively the players of Spain?
Both teams played bad  in that regard.
Where Spain was to much favored by the referee.
I saw at least two fauls for Spain, where two Dutch players broke through and were charged, red cards according to the rule.
Nonetheless this game will go down as the worst of all finals.
None of the teams diserved to win it.
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« Reply #82 on: 12 July 2010, 14:59:03 »
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My summary:

Okay, 12 hours later nd with all the press (17 news papers) in front of me, here a resumen of what we saw yesterday in the final and the WC as a whole. I will try and apply s much neutral anlyisis as I can given that I am on cloud 7 after Spain won, I will make it long and divde into sections, this partially also goes to Henk (who seems to think they were robbed) aanad 13th (who seems to hve suffered major boredom in the final):

For starters, I had never relized consciously there were only 7 nations that ever had won a WC (now 8 with newly dded Spain), I had thought that over one hundred yers there would have been many more. Interesting!?

The match yesterdy, now that I viewed the replay and see the statistics on top of what I saw as a spectator, yes had a winner who deserved it, and I will try and contrast Henks opinion (nothing personal, just the facts) before I go in depths:

Like I predicted it would go.
Falling, screaming, asking for cards conitnuing raising of the hands, schwalbes, complaining and add to that a referee who is very bad and you have a receipt for disaster.
What a bad game. Anti soccer, if I have to win a game that way Id rather lose it.


- You predicted it allright the way you want to see it, but you never disclosed your base for prediction: As I said earlier, no yellow cards for Spain in the whole tourney before (5 yesterday), but not the case for the Dutch (10 yesterdy beating the record of all WC matches ever, 27 in total. Just for the record, they held the previous record with 9 cards in the match vs. Portugal in the EC 2004). Looks you are off reality here a bit...?

- The ref *was* bad, and as I stated before, he has this history, http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=referee+webb&aq=f (not wanting to claim he is anti-Spnish, but in the two mtches he at least acted like he was): He did not give red neither for van Bommels attack on Iniestas standing leg (! you only go for it if you want to break it !), nor for "Kung Fu" De Jong´s attack on Xavi Alonso, both were red directly by any standard, and nobody missed it except him:

Spain vs Holland World Cup 2010 Final De Jong Red Card? |11| 07| 10|


Neither did he give the penalty on Xavi in the prolongation but instead gave three cards for minor fouls (but instant revenge fouls - here I can follow him, you want to stop revenge in a final) of Puyol, Capdevilla and Ramos (oh, those happen to be the defense of Spain? What a pity... Smiley ).
World Cup Final 2010 Highlights Spain vs Netherlands (1-0)
2:30 into the vid, also if you look at it you can see it was not as boring as 13th claims... Smiley

Of cause, he really did not see the corner that was due just before Spain scored, but this I count as true "error" that happens, and it was truly hard to see...

Bad, actully - and as expected - incompetent ref (FIFA has to from my POV really have to get their act together nd chnge the nation percentage solution to bringing in the best, even if they are majority from a few nations, most important is to employ trained tems as in the major leagues and not mix them over laaanguage barriers just to satsify some nations where soccer is still plyed with coconuts), but Spain won despite of him.

- Who would be a better witness to counter Henks claims than his proper National Team Manager, Mr. Van Marwijk, who asked for pardon in his press conference, here his words (translated from Dutch to English to Spanish - and back to English by me -, so take with the deserved grain of salt), excerpts:

Q: Holland denied to play soccer, only went for a destroying battle. Are you not ashamed of presnting such an image in a WC Final?
A: Indeed it is nothing beautiful to see one team committing so many fouls in a WC final, it is not our style normally, but you have to understnad this is a final and we play to win whatever way. Personlly I would have liked to win playing soccer. It is true that some of our fouls were tremendosly violent. To commit such terrible dangerous fouls is not part of our way of playing normally. But, it is a WC final, and you have to judge the whole tournament, not just one match. I think even the Spanish commited a few undeserverd fouls, if not with as tremendous violence as we.

Q: What do you say about the ref?
A: I do not want to think bout the ref, I really think the better team won, but when I think in the last entry of Robben I think he should have given three yellow cards to the Spanish defnders,  leaving them totally without defense 5 minutes before end. Webb was judging Switzerland versus Spain, he commited the error of the illegal Swiss goal then, and this is probalbly what influenced in his decision to give them pardon at this moment.

Off of Henks back now ( he has suffered enough already Smiley ), lets look into the match more in depth, it is a lesson of how a *team* wins against 11 individul players, even if the match is ugly:

Holland had seen the German mtch nd devised a strtegy to destroy the Spanish tactically and technically based soccer (while maybe not appaling to the eye, that is *not* illegitimate: The great thing about soccer, love and war is tht "everything goes"!). They decided not to meet Spain in her own territory (technically brilliant soccer based on posesion and first-touch psses) but to get her to another terrain where they felt more secure (physics, plyer mass aand height). 9 defenders/terminators and two loose cannons (Snejder nd Robben), but it just prolonged their agony aas Spin ws up to the challenge, revenging violent fouls by also marking their territory (they mnaged 5 cards also, the total was 38 fouls from Holland versus 19 from Spin, 10 vs 5 cards).

The Match;

3 minutes before the end, nd with more spce to move fter Cesc nd Navas had entered to spread the defense and the Dutch finaally ended up with 10 plyers, Iniesta scored wht probably will be seen as the most important goal in his personl history nd in the history of Spnish soccer til tody, it s interesting how some players out of nothing suddenly jump over their personl and profile limits to create moments that never will be forgotten!: Iniest is the apotheosis of passes on the first touch, clss, nd subtleness, he is not a goal getter, not even one who usually goes for a goal, sometimes it even seems (we saw it twice last night when he could have simply tried to execute) he feels ashamed to score. But, he now has two goals on his back, and both made history, alwys when everything seemed lost: #1 in Stamford Bridge (to give the Champions win to Baarca 2009), and now the 2nd in Soccer City.

The goal closed  WC thta overall really ws represnted in this laaast match, t least from my POV: Entering as fvorites, Spin started this tourney with unexpected difficulties, did not find its style, nd suffered. But, it overcame all the self inflicted problems, cncentrted on its superb plyers (Villa in the beginning, Caasillas when he became necessary, Xvi and Iniesta in the last two matches) and won aginst its dversaries.

A team that learned how to suffer, that ws there with all fcets of soccer when it became important, always patient, full of a conviction: s team there is no better (remember Rein telling Casillas how to stop the penalty versus the Paras?).

The unexpected goal of Iniesta manifested all these qualities of a tourney team in one moment.


The Mister:

The figure of Del Bosque relly determined much of the discussion of the team all over the WC (nd before), s you probably remember I was not a friend of his, but of cause with the success stnd corrected:

He came in for political reasons after Spin won the EC, nd this hereditary required delicacy, responsibility nd character, sure not the easiest of jobs. When Spain lost gainst US (Confedertion Cup) nd Switzerlnd, it opened way on the flanks for crticis (like me) and debate. Actuaally, in hindsight, aas in war those re the moments that mark the difference for great commanders nd units. All he asked for ws compromise, nd "fidelidas" towards the ideas of playing matches that had mde the naationl tem great. He touched (obviously) aaall the right buttons nd obtained the help of the team (the goal versus Germany came out of a tactics the Brca plyers hd to convince him to try, and he listened). Spain did not waiver ll through the tourney, Del Bosque neither:

He repeated tem versus Hollnd fter the win versus Germany, with Pedro in plce of Torres, and the tem started of with its style. Dutch keeper Steklenburg (great golie from my POV!) mnged to neutraalize  the chances or Ramos nd VIlla elry in the match, and the chances kept coming (though with less freequency thn the Dutch violent fouls).

That ws when Del Bosque s good commnder relized he had to react: He brought Navas (high lateral plyer, totlly contrary to the normal style of the team) to give the center room to breathe, anad when Villaa could not even walk anymore, Torres. All correct (I contested his changes myself) and the sign of a commnder tht knows whaat he is doing, win or lose.


The Ref:

I have sid something about him alredy, but:

Webb is  nrcist who alwys needs  quote of protagonism that does not correspond with the job, in his laaast mathc as well as before nd ever. He tolerated the bestilities of Van Bommel, who has (incl already in the Brazil match) converted himself from n excellent player to an "aaankle-hunter" during the WC. He tolerated the Kung-Fu attck of De Jong verus Xvi Alonso. Without ny pparent motive he was hnding out cards equally to the tow sides until even he could not ignore aanymore what ws going on. Webb was at the point of destroying the final.


The Match, II:

The plan to intimidate initilly and over  large portion of the match worked for the Dutch: During the first part the pitch seemed a war zone where only one tem struck home. For the Spnish it was impossible to ply three consecutive psses without being fouled. The match went so fr downhill thaat we only can recall soccer detils from this phase, the rest hd nothing to do with it, for this Hollnd hd gone out, expecting the chance for counter strikes (which surged, but "San Iker" saved Spin in those crucial moments). All were protagonized by Robben, more rapid then ever, nd from my POV the best Dutch plyer.

Even in the 2nd half, the Dutch violence cut short the usul plying style of Spain, but now the Dutch starte pying in tiredness their first hlf nd Spain started to get the upper hand slowly. For every Dutch chnce there were two of Spin, but they pardonned so many (and the Dutch defense was so good) tht I strted fearing for the outcome: Who pardons excessively, loses. Soccer rule set in stone. Still, after that part the initiative hd moved incontestably to the Spanish (Posession firsthalf 50/50, 2nd haalf and prolongation 30/70, overall 44/56), Van Bronckhorst who should take care of this showed his age and had yellow.

In these moments (prolongaaation alredy), Xavi started to grow over his limits s only the rel geniouses do (and you cannot trin tht: You have it or not): Together with this lmost mythical connection tht he hs with Iniest he strted distributing deep passes that lmost alawys reched their trget (Xavi: passes/good/bad 327/292/35) which was helped by the "easy" ply Cesc this time brought into the team.

The violence did not stop til the lst minute, nor the chances of Spain, one could sense tht the Dutch wnted to go to penlties (even with th best goalie in the world Spain would probably have lost there: History is against them - they never won penlties - and the southern player use to become nervous in such situtions, a thing tht does not happen to the Germans or the Dutch).

Fabregas could not resolve the clearest chnce Spain hd in  hand-to-hand versus the Dutch goaly, but, yes, he saw the postion of Iniesta when Van der Vaaaart made his big errors (this is wht happens when strikers play defender, Mr. Vn Marwijk!), and he let the ball for Iniesta who did not fail.

A mtch that hurt the eyes, but a well deserved WC chmpion, they were a team, inside nd outside the pitch!

Rattler
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« Reply #83 on: 12 July 2010, 16:14:00 »
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I thought it was rubbish.
My friend who watched it with me thought it was rubbish.
My brother fell asleep.
Need I say more?
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« Reply #84 on: 13 July 2010, 22:11:28 »
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I thought it was rubbish.
My friend who watched it with me thought it was rubbish.
My brother fell asleep.
Need I say more?


Holland lost because they changed their gameplay just for this match

instead attacking and gameplay they only focussed on stopping the Spaniards.... the result was that a team that worked well before, now had to search for eachother...
why IGN did they made such a 180°turn? they were getting better every match but then, instead of keep playing in attack-mode, they decided to go defensive....with all that forward trust and talent....(reminded me of the Italian-match-killing-defensive gameplay from years ago)
and then all the cards...well....logic when you want to stop the opponent at all costs and slowly start realizing that it won't be enough to win...very frustrating...ans a shame after quite a fair-play WC!

This match was completely a disaster, in gameplay, suspense, fair-play, show and everything you can think off... Spain's not too blame...
It was impossible to stay focused on the match, luckily there's the internet, books and more...

My personal favourites from the WC was/is Germany.... that was football, they deserved it more then any other team to win with Spain and Uruguay closely following...

USA and South-Korea should also be remembered from this WC as positive teams

And the Belgian referee team did also a good job!
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« Reply #85 on: 13 July 2010, 23:29:38 »
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The problem with South Korea was that once they got the vital goal, the manager went straight to defend mode which nearly ended South Korea's hopes once (against Nigeria) and successfully ended it in the round of 16 (against Uruguay).  Funny thing was, the goal against Uruguay was an equalizer so WTF?  Was he hoping for penalties?
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« Reply #86 on: 17 July 2010, 11:05:50 »
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The problem with South Korea was that once they got the vital goal, the manager went straight to defend mode ... Was he hoping for penalties?

That was my intution when watching the match, probably on the background of once having proceded through penalties succesfully (versus Spain). An error this time.

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« Reply #87 on: 17 July 2010, 11:34:07 »
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More aftermath:

- The German fans refused to attend to the prepared reception by the fans for making third; this was not taken well, and they have since apologized to the fans.

- The Dutch fans presented a well deserved and magnificent reception party to the Dutch team, recognizing their quality and talent:

WK 2010 Fantastische Huldiging Nederlands Elftal ORANJESUPPORTERS WERELDKAMPIOEN


Well, the Dutch have their grachts and great fans, but (also here falling back just a little bit behind Spain) they do not have Pepe Reina and his show. This guy, should he ever stop playing soccer, could go straight to TV as a presenter (he calls himself "speaker"), everything he does comes super natural and with a lot of fun (in the US, though, his presentation would have mostly consisted of a series of "peeps" Smiley ).

Unforgettable forever for all fans his presentation of the 23 members of the selection, a word, a characterization, a nick name for everyone, even if you do not understand Spanish (JUL 24: English subtitles now) you will get the gist and realize how much of a team this selection has become since 2008 inside *AND* outside the pitch, probably what makes them so successful.

Here the 23 heros, so that they will not be forgotten, as presented in "The Pepe Reina Show", Madrid, 12. 7. 2010:

1 - Iker CASILLAS (keeper), 2 - Raul ALBIOL (defender), 3 - Gerard PIQUE (defender), 4 - Carlos MARCHENA(defender), 5 - Carles PUYOL (defender)

6 - Andres INIESTA (midfield), 7 - David VILLA (striker), 8 - XAVI (midfield), 9 - Fernando TORRES (striker), 10 - Cesc FABREGAS (midfield)

11 - Joan CAPDEVILLA (defender), 12 - Victor VALDEZ (keeper), 13 - Juan MATA (striker), 14 - XAVI ALONSO (midfield), 15 - SERGIO RAMOS (defender)

16 - Sergio BUSQUETS (midfield), 17 - Alvaro ARBELOA (defender), 18 - PEDRO (striker), 19 - Fernando LLORENTE (striker), 20 - Javier MARTINEZ (midfield)

21 - David SILVA (midfield), 22 - Jesus NAVAS (striker), 23 - Pepe REINA (keeper),  Vincent DEL BOSQUE (mister)

EDIT JUL 24: Now with English subtitles, but you will have to turn up the volume...

Pepe Reina speaker Show in Madrid - Mundial Sudáfrica 2010 ( Subtitles )


Enjoy,

Rattler
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« Reply #88 on: 26 October 2010, 22:10:47 »
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To the military song "When a friend goes" (Cuando un amigo se va), here the video that shocked all Spain today, a great hommage to the octopus from Oberhausen, Germany that gave us the WC and reporting very well and in nice pictures the feelings the Spanish had for him:

"Pulpo Paul" is dead!

Born in 2008 in English waters he was transfered to Germany and started his career as a maritime oracle with the EC 2008, culminating it with his predictions for the WC 2010.

Homenaje Pulpo Paul ha muerto [Pulpo Paul has died] 26.10.2010 DEP - RIP


For those that dont remember him, here the memorable moment that made him so famous (actually, he never erred in the whole WC), Paul selects Spain over Netherlands for the final:

Final bet: Oracle Paul the Octopus picks Spain over Netherlands to win World Cup


The news has it that his cadaver will be incinerated in Germany, and that Spain is requesting the aquarium in Oberhausen to have his ashes rest in the Spanish Octopus Museum (the planned memorial statue in Madrid for him won´t be ready before 2012, probably right for the EC start).

Rattler
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« Reply #89 on: 27 October 2010, 06:52:17 »
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Ok let me be brief on this one, what are you people smoking over there its a freaking Octopus!!!

Yeah it was a very cute and funny World Cup story but don't you think erecting statues is going a little too far?

Besides why is it taking 2 years to make a statue of an octopus just find a squid and add 2 legs.


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« Reply #90 on: 27 October 2010, 09:47:51 »
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Well, he has special status here:

If you google "Pulpo Paul" you get more than a million hits...

The Spanish Federation of Chefs announced a 4 week voluntary ban on octopus on restaurant plates...

He was made Honorary Citizen of Spain, officially, and the statue project presented:
 
http://www.generaccion.com/usuarios/26014/pulpo-paul-fue-elegido-ciudadano-ilustre-espana



The official flag of the "La Roja" (that is the name of the Spanish Soccer Team) now looks like this


He has his own facebook page, and even Time made him a portal figure,  "Octopus of the year":



There is a "citizen motion" in process in the parliament to change the Spanish Flag

One of the proposals for the new national flag:


Smoking? Probably, it is not illegal here... Knipoog

Look at "La Roja" during the parade in Madrid, should say it all:



 whistle

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« Last Edit: 27 October 2010, 10:02:32 by Rattler » Logged

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« Reply #91 on: 27 October 2010, 13:42:31 »
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Yeah, we're talking soccer here, no connection to reality.  hihi
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« Reply #92 on: 27 October 2010, 20:18:14 »
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Indeed... Thats one of the reasons why I like it here so much...  Brede lach

Can´t let go, you won´t believe what has been happening here today in the respec of the dead cephalopode (soemebody corrected me: "Octopus Paul has died" should have read my title vs. (what I had) "Octopus Paul is dead").

Actually, for a journalist (and I still consider myself one even if I am mainly trying to reduce weeds in gardens for money), it went like this:

Telephone rings (yesterday afternoon). A curt voice on the other side goes: "BBC just interrupted their program for *breaking news*, dont know wheter you realized already, but Paul is dead"...

Awe and shock! Paul dead? Paul MCartney? Another of the Beatles gone?

"No, calm down, Paul, The Octopus...!"...

Ok, pulse back to almost normal, (actually I prefer to have to report a dead octopus to having to report a dead beetle), but he was only almost three years old...?

I guess this happened - more or less - to all involved in the media world, today all major news papers had Paul first in their "Obituaries" section, see as example - with now around 500 commentaries! - translated (sorry, really bad) for you convinience:

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=es&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.elmundo.es%2Felmundo%2F2010%2F10%2F26%2Finternacional%2F1288089029.html

Anyway, as it seems Paul the Beatle is still alive, maybe he sees this as the moment to give us a new version o "Octopus´s Garden" (Abbey Road)?

Octopus's Garden Take 2- The Beatles


Here, and that goes for all and everybody even in the darkest hours, at least the greates soccer hymn anywhere "You´ll never walk alone" still has meaning!  smallclap champ

(subtitled in English and Spanish):
You'll never walk alone - With lyrics (Eng/Spa)


FWIW, have a good smoke and enjoy the Spanish mentality...

Pulpo Paul, *You* will never walk alone up there in Octopus´s heaven or wherever the good pulpos go to...!

Rattler
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« Reply #93 on: 2 November 2010, 02:59:36 »
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Just an update, interesting theories here, already looking forward to see the thriller one day:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/oct/26/paul-octopus-dead-psychic-world

Excerpt:

Quote
Not everyone, it seems, is prepared to accept the news that the "psychic" octopus – who made such a splash over the summer by successfully predicting the results of World Cup games – passed away on Monday in the comfort of the German aquarium he called home.

According to Jiang Xiao, the director of a forthcoming thriller entitled Who Killed Paul the Octopus?, the creature had really been dead for the last three months. Jiang told the Guardian she was "60 to 70% sure" Paul had died in July and been secretly replaced by his keepers.

Explaining how such a deception could have been perpetrated, she added: "[Octopuses] all look the same. It is impossible to tell the difference."

Jiang said she thought it was "kind of strange" that news of Paul's death had broken not long after the Oberhausen Sea Life Centre in western Germany had contacted her team to say they were keen to co-operate on the international distribution of her film.

"We have been keeping in touch with the German aquarium ever since the beginning [of production] but it seemed to me that they were afraid," she said. "The movie is about unveiling the inside story behind the octopus miracle, so they felt nervous.

"For the movie, we had done quite a lot of investigation and I am 60% to 70% sure that Paul died on 9 July [two days before the World Cup final] and the Germans have been covering up his death and fooling us for a long time."



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