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Author Topic: Cars!  (Read 41532 times)
Koen
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« Reply #60 on: 10 October 2010, 12:35:15 »
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Koen, *that* would be a nice piece to drive around town!



yeah, but what about the 30kph limit?  hihi

another question, say you got mucho money.... no limit.... your wife gave you the approval to buy 3 cars this year to complete your collection... but they should be roadlegal so she can ride with you....

what cars would you buy? new and/or 2nd hand?


no.1 would be the Ur-QUATTRO from Audi... maybe very normal for a rich man but this is dreamcar no.1 for me.... (and yes, I'm an 80's guy)
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2148389.htm

Old Top Gear Audi Quattro

Reportage über den Audi Ur-Quattro


no.2 will be posted after your no.1's  Knipoog
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Rattler
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« Reply #61 on: 10 October 2010, 13:43:50 »
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Mine would always again been one I once owned, an MB 300 SEL 6.3 from ´68 to ´72.

Here a documentary to compare the W108 to the W109, with some incorrectnesses: Other than stated, the 6.3 (and 3.5) were not only different by their tyres: They were longer (15 cm in the rear door), they had air suspension instead of conventional, and the exhaust was also very different. Last they were fully chromed around the doors, and from the inside even the window frames were made of rose root wood (as compared to the 108 who had the chrome just on the window frames and no wood but leather/plastic on the windows).

Mercedes-Benz Fascination W108 W109 Types 250S and 300SEL 6.3 Documentary (English)


What is right in the doumentary is the thing about sports car qualities: I would eat any Porsche Carrera from 0-50, and anytime... And if at 160 (at relaxed 2000 revolutions) you would floor you received a hit like in a jet fighter that would throuw you back into the seats, simply incredible... I think Mercedes never ever before or after built a model with such a high torque (that is why you could only start moving it in 2nd gear, on first it would just turn 360 degrees around the front wheels).

Autocross Run In A Mercedes 6.3, check the end!


All this with all the luxury you can imagine, from leather over wood to airconditioning, electric windows (but triangle windows also), central locking (pneumatical), electrical movable seats, electrically retractable roof etc., all not generalized in the 60s. Here the inside (of an 3.5) but apart from the clock in the dashboard of the 3.5 instead of the rpm-meter of the 6.3 those interiors were alike)

WWW.AUTOEMOTIONAL.COM


And another one, from Swededn, where only 9 were sold (around 3000 were fabricated in total), here the elegant lines and the rose wood interior can be seen perfectly.

mb 300 sel


Not surprisingly the 6.3 in AMG version made to become one of the most important ralley cars at that time.

300SEL 6.3 AMG (Embedding disabled, limit reached)

Best car I ever owned.

Rattler
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« Reply #62 on: 26 October 2010, 18:29:35 »
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oooopsssssssssss.... with all the serious stuff I forgot about this....  whistle

will continue our 'election' thread...

just posting this as a 'keep-them-coming'.....

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« Reply #63 on: 27 October 2010, 18:08:39 »
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nr. 2 on my list... (altough there are many candidates....)

Mercedes (W201) 190E Evo II



only 4 cilinders but not the boring standard sound... revs up...

190E Evolution II 2,5-16V


Quote
190E (2.3-16 &) 2.5-16 "Cosworth"

Back in the late 1970s, Mercedes competed in rallying with the big V8-powered Coupés of the R107 Series, mainly the light-weight Mercedes 450 SLC 5.0. Mercedes wished to take the 190 E rallying, and asked British race car engineering company Cosworth to develop an engine with 320 bhp (239 kW) for the rally car. This project was known as project "WAA" by Cosworth"[4]. During this time, the Audi Quattro with its all wheel drive and turbocharger was launched, making the 2.3-16v appear over-matched. With a continued desire to compete in high-profile motor sport with the 190, and also now an engine to do it with, Mercedes turned to the Deutsche Tourenwagen Meisterschaft (DTM) (German Touring Car Championship) motor sport series instead. Cars racing in this championship, however, had to be based on a roadgoing model. Mercedes therefore had to put into series production a 190 fitted with a detuned version of the Cosworth engine. This high performance model was known as the 190 E 2.3-16, and debuted at the Frankfurt Auto Show in September 1983, after its reputation had already been established. Three cars, only slightly cosmetically altered, had set three world records in August at the Nardo testing facility in Italy, recording a combined average speed of 154.06 mph (247.94 km/h) over the 50,000 km endurance test, and establishing twelve international endurance records.

Engine

The Cosworth engine was based on the 2.3-liter 8-valve 136 hp (101 kW) unit already fitted to the 190- and E-Class series. Cosworth developed the cylinder head, "applying knowledge we've learnt from the DFV and BDA". It was made from light alloy using Coscast's unique casting process and brought with it dual overhead camshafts and four valves per cylinder, meaning 16 valves total which were developed to be the "largest that could practically be fitted into the combustion chamber".

In roadgoing trim, the 190 E 2.3-16 produced 49 hp (36 kW) and 41 ft·lbf (55 N·m) of torque more than the basic single overhead cam 2.3 I4 engine on which it was based. The 2.3 L 16 valve engine made "185 hp (137 kW) at 6,200 rpm and 174 ft·lbf (235 N·m) at 4,500 rpm, the oversquare 95.50 x 80.25 mm bore and stroke dimensions ensuring that it revs easily up to the 7000 rpm redline"[6]. Acceleration from 0–100 km/h (62 mph) was less than eight seconds, and the top speed was 230 km/h (143 mph)[6].

US-Specification cars had a slightly reduced compression ratio (9.7:1 instead of 10.5:1), and were rated at 167 hp (125 kW) @ 5800 rpm and 162 lb·ft (220 N·m) @ 4750.

The roadgoing version of the engine was reconfigured with reduced inlet and exhaust port sizes, different camshaft profiles, no dry sump configuration and Bosch K-jetronic replacing the specialised Kugelfischer fuel injection. These changes helped bring power down to the required 185 bhp (138 kW) specification, but still resulted in a "remarkably flexible engine, with a very flat torque curve and a wide power band"[5]. The heads for the engines were cast at Cosworth's Coscast foundry in Worcester and sent to Germany to be fitted to the rest of the engine, parts of which were different from the standard 2.3 including light pressed alloy pistons, and rings designed to withstand higher engine speeds, whilst con-rods, bearings and bearing caps were found to be strong enough as standard and left unaltered[5].
[edit] 2.5 model

An enlarged 2.5 L engine replaced the 2.3 L in 1988. It offered double valve timing chains to fix the easily snapping single chains on early 2.3 engines, and increased output by 17 hp (12.5 kW) with a slight increase in torque. For the European market without catalyst (RÜF) the car delivered 204 bhp (150 kW). Catalyst equipped 2.5-16s produced a slightly reduced 197 bhp (147 kW). It is debated whether the 2.5 L engine was developed and built by Mercedes or Cosworth. Mercedes was not keen to broadcast the fact that their most sporting saloon car has an engine developed by a British company. However some cylinder heads from 2.5 L cars are stamped with the Coscast logo indicating they were cast at Cosworth's foundry just like the 2.3s. Cosworth also list the project code "WAB" for the development of the 2.5-16 valve head just as they do for the 2.3-16 valve head. Car program Top Gear predicted this 2.5 model to be one of the future classics in the car world, because of its relatively unknown history and rivalry with the BMW M3.

16v differences

Due to their performance, the 16 valve cars were different from the other 190 models. The body kit on the 2.3-16 and 2.5-16 reduced the drag coefficient to 0.32, one of the lowest CD values on a four door saloon of the time, whilst also reducing lift at speed. The steering ratio was quicker and the steering wheel smaller than that on other 190s, whilst the fuel tank was enlarged from 55 to 70 L. The Getrag 5-speed manual gearbox was unique to the 16 valve and featured a 'racing' gear pattern with 'dog-leg' first gear, left and down from neutral. This meant that the remaining 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th gears were in a simple H pattern allowing fast and easy selection. The gearchange quality was, however, noted as "notchy, baulky"[6], criticisms which weren't levelled at the BMW M3 (E30) which shared the same gearbox. The pattern is also unusual in that the driver engages reverse by shifting left and up from neutral, as for first gear in a conventional pattern. This was satirised in a Top Gear episode (S15E02) where James May took a 190E Cosworth and repeatedly pretended to confuse reverse and first gear. An oil cooler was fitted to ensure efficient oil cooling for the inevitable track use many of these cars were destined for.

The strictly four-seater interior had Recaro sports seats with strong side bolsters for front and rear passengers. 3 extra dials - an oil temperature gauge, stopwatch and voltmeter - were included in the centre console. The 190 E 2.3-16 was available in only two colours, Blue-Black metallic (Pearl Black in the US), and Smoke Silver. The 2.5-16 added Almandine Red and Astral Silver.

All 2.3-16 valve 190 models are fitted with a Limited Slip Differential (LSD) as standard. They were also available with Mercedes' ASD system which was standard equipment on the 2.5-16v. The ASD is an electronically controlled, hydraulically locking differential which activates automatically when required. The electronic control allows varied amounts of differential lock from the standard 15% right up to 100%. It is not a traction control system however, and can only maximize traction rather than prevent wheel spin. Activation of the ASD system is indicated by an illuminating amber triangle in the speedometer.

The suspension on 16 valve models is very different from the standard 190 (W201). As well as being lower and stiffer, it has quicker dampers, larger anti-roll bars, harder bushings and hydraulic Self-Levelling Suspension (SLS) on the rear. This allows the rear ride height to remain constant even when the car is fully loaded.

At the inauguration of the new, shorter Nürburgring in 1984, a race with identical cars was held, with former and current F1 pilots at the wheel. A rather unknown young driver named Ayrton Senna took First Place in that race.

Private Teams such as AMG later entered the 2.3-16 in touring cars races, especially the DTM. In the late 1980s, the 2.5-16 (never released in the United States) raced many times, against the similar BMW M3 and even the turbocharged Ford Sierra Cosworth.

« Last Edit: 1 November 2010, 18:17:58 by Koen » Logged
Rattler
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« Reply #64 on: 27 October 2010, 20:57:58 »
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Who wants high revs? For me just a lack of cylindrage and a waste of technical assetts...  hdbng

LOW revs & torque is my way for cars!

Rattler
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« Reply #65 on: 27 October 2010, 21:02:52 »
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Who wants high revs? For me just a lack of cylindrage and a waste of technical assetts...  hdbng

LOW revs & torque is my way for cars!

Rattler



 spamspam ..........................................................  hihi

Mercedes 190 EVO (Bernd Schneider) DTM REVIVAL'09 Nurburgring HQ
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« Reply #66 on: 27 October 2010, 21:06:47 »
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If I see this last vid right, he does not even have leather seats?

 Kwaad   drama  wtf2  angst2  flirt

TA
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"Smile, tomorrow will be worse!"  Murphy
Koen
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« Reply #67 on: 27 October 2010, 21:08:13 »
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If I see this last vid right, he does not even have leather seats?

 Kwaad   drama  wtf2  angst2  flirt

TA


last video is the original DTM version.... ofcourse no leather....  hihi
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« Reply #68 on: 27 October 2010, 21:12:32 »
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See? Q.E.D. ! Brede lach

TA
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"Smile, tomorrow will be worse!"  Murphy
Koen
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« Reply #69 on: 27 October 2010, 21:26:20 »
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See? Q.E.D. ! Brede lach

TA


where's Rattler?  whistle

Q.E.D., from the Latin quod erat demonstrandum, used at the end of a definitive proof
QED (text editor), named from "quick editor"
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« Reply #70 on: 28 October 2010, 13:43:18 »
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More tech talk...blah   hdbng
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Rattler
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« Reply #71 on: 28 October 2010, 14:49:39 »
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Q.E.D., from the Latin quod erat demonstrandum, used at the end of a definitive proof -snip-

... meaning "hat had to be proved".. .. And that is exactly what I meant it to be read like, "Q.E.D." (note the points inbetween the letters): No leather seats?? Come on, buddy!? How can this be a serious car for starters?? Does it have a cigarett lighter? Does it work? Kwaad

@FACman, no tech talk blah here, just a sincere expression of basic necessecities that I want to see in a car (apart from torque (!!), of course): 1. A working cigarette lighter, and 2. LEATHER seats!!

If you still don´t get it watch this: "Fix the cigarette lighter!", featuring on the right (From POV) Mr. Koen, and on the left Mr. Rattler, two different philosphies on the same hp base (volume versus revs):

Blues Brothers/Bluesmobile: Fix the cigarette lighter!


In all those respects, the MB 6.3 as presented above makes the perfect (European, of course) bluesmobile for me...

All the rest, from my POV, cant impress me much... (car lovers - me included - have a suppressed gay streak anyway, say the experts. What is more, I *hate* Shania Twain !!! :pistol:):

That Don't Impress Me Much- Bear Music


FWIW,

Rattler

P.S.: As ST-hater I have looked hard for a good cover of this great song, but could not find any except this rather satirical one from a Mallorquin gay bar in Palma ("good" being the challenge!), strange no hard rock band has yet taken up on it, would make the perfect metal song with a bad ass guitar solo surely hitting charts again.... R.
« Last Edit: 28 October 2010, 15:41:47 by Rattler » Logged

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« Reply #72 on: 28 October 2010, 18:51:53 »
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fix the  waa waa waa waa cigarette  hihi hihi hihi lighter .... I LOVE that movie
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Koen
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« Reply #73 on: 1 November 2010, 18:20:58 »
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talking about being protected! nice flip, quite spectacular  smallclap

Alexandre Premat 2010 DTM crash at Adria Raceway


http://www.alexandrepremat.com/
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« Reply #74 on: 29 November 2010, 22:56:32 »
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2010 Race of Champions Michèle Mouton Audi Sport Quattro S1 Flip


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO  reddevil
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« Reply #75 on: 29 November 2010, 23:02:17 »
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Making of - Pagani vs Lamborghini: Need for Speed Hot Pursuit


YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS  champ
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Rattler
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« Reply #76 on: 2 December 2010, 08:03:21 »
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... and here the actual trailer that was shot:

Need for Speed Hot Pursuit Release Trailer - Pagani vs Lamborghini - HD


Rattler
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« Reply #77 on: 6 December 2010, 20:29:45 »
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Koen
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« Reply #78 on: 18 April 2011, 21:20:55 »
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new stuff

Fifth Gear - Audi RS 3 2011 Sportback Full Test Review


Fifth Gear - BMW M3 GTS (Track Test)
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« Reply #79 on: 23 April 2011, 10:30:34 »
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Audi A7 Papercraft Model


building a car-replica in paper  iconclap
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