NCO Club: Off Topic Discussions => The Lab: Science & Technology => Topic started by: Koen on 13 February 2009, 15:59:23



Title: Buying a new PC!
Post by: Koen on 13 February 2009, 15:59:23
Can someone tell me what NOT to buy when I want to keep on playing CM on a new PC?

NOT Vista?

and what about the smoke graphics?


Title: Re: What NOT to buy?
Post by: Tanker on 13 February 2009, 17:16:53
Don't combine Vista and a DX-10 capable graphics card.  You can be assured that all new cards are DX-10.  Search the BFC forums will give you a lot of info about this.

1.) I would say the most practical solution is to stay with xp if you can.
It will be difficult to buy an xp equipped new pc unless you build it yourself.
 

2.) You can have 2 OS on the same pc by making a partition and installing xp on one and vista on the other.  That is more complicated.

3.) You can try running a virtual machine on your vista equipped pc.  Google it.

MS windows 7 is in beta testing right now.  It will replace Vista.  By all accounts it is running faster and better than Vista on the same machine.  I would try to skip Vista if I could.  CM will probably not work with the new os either  :(


Title: Re: What NOT to buy?
Post by: Koen on 13 February 2009, 17:32:51
maybe I should try to make my PC faster and keep the HD with XP

what are the things to replace to have the best result in performance/speed?


Title: Re: What NOT to buy?
Post by: Tanker on 13 February 2009, 17:45:19
What are you trying to run and what problems are you having?

What are the specs of your current machine?

A pc that is adequate for CM will not run the newest FPS games well at all.


Title: Re: What NOT to buy?
Post by: Koen on 13 February 2009, 17:55:02
lately when I'm doing several things at the same it starts to slow down...

downloading from PirateBay/several FF pages/outlook/administrating WaT/ it already starts to slow down...

mostly I need photoshop also and then it slows down even further...

gaming online, when everything else is closed, is ok

specs:

Windows XP Home edition 2002 Service Pack 3
Packard Bell Intel[R]
Pentium[R] D CPU 2.80 GHz
clock speed: 2.79GHz , 768MB
ATI radeon XPRESS 200 Series

trying to find some more info


Title: Re: What NOT to buy?
Post by: DrVonCool on 13 February 2009, 19:31:01
I bought a new rig half a year ago, with a nVidia GTX260 graphics card and Vista 64. I added Windows XP to create a dual boot system, with the intention to stick to Vista and only use XP for legacy purposes. However while I could play all CM versions alright under Vista, the game files didn't end up where you expect them since Vista doesn't like CM's behavior to write them into a sub-directory of your "Program Files" directory and silently creates a shadow directory per user. Which in turn made PBEMH unusable, a tool that I have learned to love.

In the end, I am now using XP for almost everything and only go for Vista to play DirectX 10 games.

Regarding fog, the nVidia card shows it; a while ago ATI cards didn't, but I'm not sure whether some new drivers solved that issue.


Title: Re: What NOT to buy?
Post by: Koen on 13 February 2009, 19:42:28
thx for the info:

mine now has ATI and I never had any problems.

should I upgrade graphicscard and/or processor and/or the amount of memory?

if so...what card(s) or processor(s)?


Title: Re: What NOT to buy?
Post by: Tanker on 13 February 2009, 20:48:46
You're attempting a lot of multitasking.  That will slow down a single core cpu.

First off try pc house keeping chores like defragging the hard drive, cleaning out unneeded files etc. (see Start/help and support on your pc)

Then you must go to your Mother board maker's site to see what cpu you could upgrade to while retaining the mb.

The most cost effective upgrade could be more memory.  You did not mention the amount you have but certainly 1.5 to 2.0 gb would not be excessive.


Title: Re: What NOT to buy?
Post by: Koen on 13 February 2009, 21:43:43
Quote
First off try pc house keeping chores like defragging the hard drive, cleaning out unneeded files etc. (see Start/help and support on your pc)


done on a regular base, the same for all other mischief hanging around...

Quote
Then you must go to your Mother board maker's site to see what cpu you could upgrade to while retaining the mb.


where can I find the maker?


Title: Re: What NOT to buy?
Post by: Tanker on 14 February 2009, 02:21:15
There are several utilities available for free which will give system specs.  Sisoft Sandra is one.  Try googling it.

It can tell you a lot about what's on your pc.  You can find the make and model of your MB and then check with the manufacturer to see what kind of cpu you can upgrade it with.

But memory is relatively cheap and may be a good performance booster.


Title: What NOT to buy?
Post by: Koen on 9 July 2009, 12:36:51
well, bought a new mouse and had a chat with the guy from the shop, he talks about 750-800€ for a decent PC and 1000€ for a gaming PC.

I have the choice between XP & Vista.

the rest ofcourse can also be chosen freely.

Man, this will be tough...what to choose from...

it certainly needs to be able to play CM with fog, smoke and stuff...

You're attempting a lot of multitasking.  That will slow down a single core cpu.

First off try pc house keeping chores like defragging the hard drive, cleaning out unneeded files etc. (see Start/help and support on your pc)

Then you must go to your Mother board maker's site to see what cpu you could upgrade to while retaining the mb.

The most cost effective upgrade could be more memory.  You did not mention the amount you have but certainly 1.5 to 2.0 gb would not be excessive.


so I NEED a dual core CPU?


Title: Re: What NOT to buy?
Post by: FACman on 9 July 2009, 13:38:47
Koen sez:
Quote
so I NEED a dual core CPU?


I suspect you don't NEED one, however, with the speed at which computers become obsolete, and your heavy multi-tasking, the question becomes, why not?


Title: Re: What NOT to buy?
Post by: Koen on 9 July 2009, 14:11:05
Koen sez:
Quote
so I NEED a dual core CPU?


I suspect you don't NEED one, however, with the speed at which computers become obsolete, and your heavy multi-tasking, the question becomes, why not?


euh...ok...in fact I was asking for the pros and cons like price etc


Title: Re: Buying a new PC?
Post by: Koen on 9 July 2009, 15:00:45
BTW....the new mouse is great...bought a cable-one...from Microsoft...

the last one was wireless with a transmittor for mouse & keyboard...buying a new wireless one would give me 2 transmittors and I found that a bit stupid....PC, 2 external harddrives, keyboard, loudspeakers and 2 transmittors on my desk???  hihi

the guys at the shop are giving some examples of PC's at their homepage


DMDNET It-Starter

    Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3GHz
    Asus P5ql-e
    2Gb DDR II 800
    Seagate 160 GB SATA
    Geforce 8400GS 256 MB
    ANTEC case
    Sony floppy 1.44 MB
    Samsung DVD-rw
    Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic
    Microsoft Keyboard + Mouse
    Philips speakers
    cardreader 15 in 1
    Bitdefender antivirus

DMDnet Home-starter
    Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3GHz
    Asus P5ql-e
    4Gb DDR II 800
    Seagate 250 GB SATA
    Geforce 9500GT 512 MB
    ANTEC case
    Sony floppy 1.44 MB
    Samsung DVD-rw
    Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium
    Microsoft Keyboard + Mouse
    Philips 2.1 speakers
    cardreader 15 in 1
    Bitdefender antivirus


DMDnet Home-advanced

    Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 3.16GHz
    Asus P5Q PRO
    4Gb DDR II 800
    Seagate 500 GB SATA
    Geforce 9500GT 512 MB
    ANTEC case
    Sony floppy 1.44 MB
    Samsung DVD-rw
    Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium
    Microsoft Keyboard + Mouse
    Philips 2.1 speakers
    cardreader 15 in 1
    Bitdefender antivirus

DMDnet Ultimate

    Intel Core Q9550 2.83 GHz (Quad it seems)
    Asus PKQ pro
    4Gb DDR II 800
    Seagate 750 GB SATA
    Geforce 9600GT 1024 MB
    ANTEC case
    Sony floppy 1.44 MB
    Samsung DVD-rw
    Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium
    Microsoft Keyboard + Mouse
    Philips 2.1speakers
    cardreader 15 in 1
    wireless LAN ontvanger
    Bitdefender antivirus


your comments please


Title: Re: Buying a new PC?
Post by: Koen on 9 July 2009, 18:49:03
well, some people just don't know how to sell things, man, this guy gave me a sheet of paper with 4 examples of PC's and that was it....meanwhile he was following the Tour de France instead of explaining things or asking me questions....

bye bye sir...I went to a local guy who builds PC's at home...seems he's been building PC's in several local shops during the last 7-8 years...

there I got the full treatment...what do I want?...what do I need?

comparing components etc and we came to this result...

components:

Case: Tybotech Extreme Gaming Black
(http://massinfo.be/TyboTech/skus/sku8468_gr.jpg)

CPU: Intel C2D E8500 3.16GHz (review: http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/intel_e8500/ (http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/intel_e8500/))
(http://www.sharkyextreme.com/img/2008/03/c2d_e8500/chip.jpg)

Motherboard: Foxconn P45A DDR2-1066 (review: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186148 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186148))
(http://www.foxconnchannel.com/Upload/Mainboard/200906031045120991_P45A_overhead.png)

Memory: Patriot Viper DC DDRII 2x2Gb
(http://xtreview.com/images/patriot%20Viper%20Fin%2001.jpg)

DVD/CD: Lite-On 24x SATA (products: http://www.liteonit.eu/nl/optical-storage-dvd-rw-internal/ (http://www.liteonit.eu/nl/optical-storage-dvd-rw-internal/))

Hard-drives: Seagate SATAII 1x 80Gb for OS/XP / 1x 500Gb for data storage (already got 2 external HD's)

Graphical card: Point of View GeForce Nvidia 9600GT DDRIII 1024Mb(+HDMI)
product: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_9600gt_us.html (http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_9600gt_us.html)
(http://www.jpginformatica.es/tienda/images/PoW%209600GT.jpg)

together with XP should cost me 779€


Title: Re: Buying a new PC?
Post by: stoffel on 9 July 2009, 19:07:47
Yours is faster than mine now :(

But good deal!
Welcome to a new age, you will be amazed how fast things will go  from now on :)


Title: Re: Buying a new PC?
Post by: Koen on 9 July 2009, 19:19:55
Yours is faster than mine now :(

But good deal!
Welcome to a new age, you will be amazed how fast things will go  from now on :)


didn't agree yet but he's only 1 street away...yeah...it will be a total new experience

I will stick to XP, Windows 7 will be for later when it's released + 1 year  hihi

I have doubts about putting a Blu-Ray/DVD/CD player in it...it will cost me more BUT since the PC has a HDMI output and the TV a HDMI input I should be able to watch Blu-Ray on TV etc....should be around 70€ extra  :whistle:


Title: Re: Buying a new PC?
Post by: Tanker on 9 July 2009, 21:55:20
Have you already bought?  You should really go with DDR3 memory and a board that can accept it.  It doesn't cost much more than the ddr2.


Title: Re: Buying a new PC?
Post by: Koen on 9 July 2009, 21:59:49
Have you already bought?  You should really go with DDR3 memory and a board that can accept it.  It doesn't cost much more than the ddr2.


no, not yet

what's the big advantage of DDRIII?

he told me we had to upgrade several components if we would go for III


Title: Re: Buying a new PC?
Post by: Tanker on 10 July 2009, 02:00:15
Well it's true that if your motherboard and cpu don't support ddr3 it would do no good to get it.  I was just thinking that if they did, it doesn't cost much more to get ddr3 and it is considerably faster.

I see that the mb is ddr2 only so it would make no sense to get the higher memory.


Title: Re: Buying a new PC?
Post by: Tanker on 10 July 2009, 02:36:51
Why are you getting a relatively small (80gb) hd for the os?


Title: Re: Buying a new PC?
Post by: Koen on 10 July 2009, 08:47:13
Why are you getting a relatively small (80gb) hd for the os?


well, why take a bigger one?
or you will say: why not take a bigger one?


Title: Re: Buying a new PC?
Post by: Koen on 10 July 2009, 11:33:23
guys at http://forums.overclockersclub.com (http://forums.overclockersclub.com) advised me to go for

a more expensive graphic card so the GeForce9800 instead of the GeForce9600
a cheaper CPU so the 8400 instead of the 8500

combo price would be the same

when I get the 9800 and keep the 8500 it would cost me an extra 20€ bringing it to 799€


Title: Re: Buying a new PC?
Post by: Koen on 10 July 2009, 15:24:18
well, been enjoying myself trying to learn as much as possible in the shortest time about hardware...

779€ + upgrade HD's 40€ (HD1 250GB - HD2 1TB) + 20€ (upgrade GeForce 9800) = 839€

Case
: Tybotech Gaming Black case with 400W PSU
CPU: E8500 3.16GHz
motherboard: Foxconn P45A DDRII
Memory: Patriot Viper 2x2 GB DDRII
DVD-RW: Lite-On
HD1: Seagate 250GB
HD2: Seagate 1TB
Graphics card: Point of View GT9800 1Gb
OS: Windows XP

I'll probably keep my old PC for Combat Mission-only use after a serious clean-up  hihi


Title: Re: Buying a new PC!
Post by: Tanker on 10 July 2009, 17:06:58
Why are you getting a relatively small (80gb) hd for the os?


I'm building a new pc myself and I'm trying to figure out the best way to set up the hard drives.  If you just put the os on a small drive and then put everything you can on a bigger one, then it makes sense to get a small one for the os.  I'm just curious.  Were you advised to do it that way by the shop where you're getting the pc?

well, why take a bigger one?
or you will say: why not take a bigger one?



Title: Re: Buying a new PC!
Post by: Koen on 10 July 2009, 17:08:35
yes, the guy told me to get a smaller one for the OS and the bigger for the stuff you download.

safety spoken....


Title: Re: Buying a new PC!
Post by: Tanker on 10 July 2009, 17:10:54
guys at [url]http://forums.overclockersclub.com[/url] ([url]http://forums.overclockersclub.com[/url]) advised me to go for

a more expensive graphic card so the GeForce9800 instead of the GeForce9600
a cheaper CPU so the 8400 instead of the 8500

combo price would be the same

when I get the 9800 and keep the 8500 it would cost me an extra 20€ bringing it to 799€


Quote from: Koen link=topic=835.msg5025#msg5025

date=1247218403

They are probably advising you to do that with the proviso that you overclock the cheaper cpu to make it the same speed as the more expensive one.  It is the overclocker's club after all.

Overclocking can be risky and the added heat will shorten the life of the component.  Most overclockers probably upgrade components yearly so they don't worry too much about life span.
guys at [url]http://forums.overclockersclub.com[/url] ([url]http://forums.overclockersclub.com[/url]) advised me to go for

a more expensive graphic card so the GeForce9800 instead of the GeForce9600
a cheaper CPU so the 8400 instead of the 8500

combo price would be the same

when I get the 9800 and keep the 8500 it would cost me an extra 20€ bringing it to 799€




Title: Re: Buying a new PC!
Post by: Tanker on 10 July 2009, 17:11:35
Damn this board makes it hard for me to use the quote function well.  Sorry for that.


Title: Re: Buying a new PC!
Post by: Tanker on 10 July 2009, 17:15:31
yes, the guy told me to get a smaller one for the OS and the bigger for the stuff you download.

safety spoken....




Yes, but how about the games you install, such as COD 4 or Arma2?  Will they install to the D drive or will they insist on being on the C drive with the OS?  If so you need a bigger drive to accomodate the os and the programs that can't be installed on another drive.

I don't know for sure.  I'm just raising the point because I have that question to solve also.


Title: Re: Buying a new PC!
Post by: Koen on 10 July 2009, 17:20:49
therefore I upgraded the OS HD from 80 to 250GB, should be sufficient, not?

the data one will be 1TB with an external of 1 TB (mp3-WII-movies) and 1 of 300GB (pics-Combat Mission-backup)


Title: Re: Buying a new PC!
Post by: Tanker on 10 July 2009, 17:23:44
I think that would be more than sufficient.  I just wish we could determine whether most programs could be installed on a different drive. 


Title: Re: Buying a new PC!
Post by: Koen on 10 July 2009, 20:06:42
I don't suppose they should be on the same HD, don't know why they should...

the saga for the new PC continues:

we are now looking into replacing the:

CPU: from an Intel E8500 (dual) to an Intel C2D Q9550 (quad) +45€ above the E8500

(http://www.dcom.be/shop/images/foto/BX80569Q9550.jpg)

Graphics card: Pointofview 9600 to 9800 but now going for a PoV Nvidia GTS250 (http://www.pointofview-online.com/showroom.php?shop_mode=product_detail&product_id=82 (http://www.pointofview-online.com/showroom.php?shop_mode=product_detail&product_id=82)) which also would mean +45€

(http://www.pointofview-online.com/userfiles/product-images/GF200_series/R-VGA150924%20-%20GTS250.jpg)
Pointofview Nvidia GTS250


Title: Re: Buying a new PC!
Post by: Koen on 10 July 2009, 22:41:56
Case Tybotech Extreme Gaming

CPU Intel C2 Quad  Q9550 2.8Ghz

Mainboard Foxconn P45A DDR2

DVD Lite-On DVD-RW 24x SATA

Memory Patriot Viper 2x2GB

HD1 WD 250GB 7200GB 7200 8mb SATA 3GB Caviar Blue

HD2 WD 1TB 7200 32mb SATA 3GB Caviar Green

VGA PointOfView GeForce GTS250 1024mb

OS MS Windows XP Home NL

=904€

quite some money but this should give me more then an average PC...and I do spend alot of time behind the screen...


Title: Re: Buying a new PC!
Post by: Koen on 11 July 2009, 11:51:53
latest news:

the building will be done by www.azerty.nl (http://www.azerty.nl)

when I compared with the local guy I can get a system much faster and future-proof for the same money

* Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium w/S 221446 € 115,78

* OCZ Titanium Dual Channel Kit - Geheugen 224669 € 61,40

* AMD Black Edition - Processor - 1 x AMD Phenom II X4 955 / 3.2 GHz - Socket AM3 - L3 6 MB - Box 210544 € 184,93

* WD Caviar Black WD1001FALS - 1 TB - 81174 89€

* CoolerMaster Real Power M620 Modular PSUId 35578 € 84,16

* Azerty Montage volledig systeem 1 jaar gId 7517 € 59,00 (building)

* Asrock M3A780GXH/128M - Moederbord - ATX 215532 € 74,70

* XFX Radeon HD 4890 - Grafische adapter - 207707 € 161,49

* Cooler Master CM 690 - Midtowermodel -  42465 € 67,76

* Sony NEC Optiarc AD-7200S - Schijfstation 62006 € 17,79

total: 915.65€

transport-home delivery = 30€

all together: 945.64€

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/AcoolVW/diverse/Screenshot-11-Jul-0901.jpg)

updated!


Title: Ordered the components!.........finally........
Post by: Koen on 24 July 2009, 15:07:44
FINALLY ORDERED THE COMPONENTS

 woohoo

Quote
•    Cooler Master CM 690 Window   € 80,40
•   
•    CoolerMaster Silent Pro M700                 € 102,76
•   
•    Sapphire TOXIC HD 4890      € 208,19
•   
•    Antec TriCool – LED Ventilatorhuis - 120 mm   € 12,42
•   
•    Scythe Slip Stream 800 rpm 120mm      € 6,60
•   
•    WD Caviar Black WD5001AALS 500GB      € 56,42
•   
•    Samsung SpinPoint F2EG HD 1TB   € 65,18
•   
•     AMD Black Edition X4 Phenom II         € 181,56
•   
•     Gigabyte GA-MA790XT-UD4P   € 108,48
•   
•    Sony NEC Optiarc AD-7203A                 € 22,57
•   
•     OCZ Titanium Dual Channel Kit   € 69,56
•   
•    Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium W7   € 112,82



 bravoclap

Sapphire HD 4890 Toxic 1 GB Graphics Card Overview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWUWYp2V3eo#ws-lq-lq2-hq-vhq-hd)

Gigabyte GA-MA790XT-UD4P Motherboard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=000JjLwHKWs#ws-lq-lq2-hq-vhq-hd)

AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition AM3 Processor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFEHzbQkEw4#ws-lq-lq2-hq-vhq-hd)

Antec 120mm Tricool Fan 3DGAMEMAN Spoof Review (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rZXt0zN19E#lq-lq2-hq)


Title: Re: Buying a new PC!
Post by: Koen on 2 September 2009, 21:14:11
this has been a struggle and it's still not solved...

when assembling and putting power to the beast...nothing happened...the graphic card gave a black screen, it's fan went rotating at 100% and I got an error light...

some research on the net gave as result that the problem is known by Sapphire and that they exchange the cards with new ones...

so I sent 2 emails at the same time, 1 at Sapphire and 1 at Azerty where I bought the card.

I gave both the intel I got from the net.

Sapphire advised me to go by the seller.

The seller Azerty tested the card and said there was NO problem.
To get it back it would cost me 43€

I asked them if they contacted Sapphire but they didn't...it was too difficult...excuse me?
Sapphire would pick up the card at my home and deliver a new one BUT the card was still at Azerty and they would only send it back AFTER I payed them...

So again I wrote Sapphire and told them I was quickly becoming a very unsatisfied customer...

So finally Sapphire contacted Azerty and told them that a card could malfunction on 1 system and work nicely on a another one...so their 'OK' test didn't prove anything...

This evening I got an email from Azerty that they were shipping the old card to my place, free of charge.

(the wise-guy from Azerty told the guy from Sapphire that he found it bizarre they could tell that my card was broken from a distance, I think he was a bit annoyed  hdbng )

So now there's only 1 cost to discuss, the 16€ I payed to ship it from my place to Azerty.

As soon the card is back home, Sapphire will pick it up and give me a new one....for free...

will be continued...


Title: Re: Buying a new PC!
Post by: Tanker on 3 September 2009, 01:35:09
What a headache. >:(  That's too bad Koen.  I was very lucky when I built mine, I had no problems.  It sucks how they try to rip you off. :reddevil:


Title: Re: Buying a new PC!
Post by: Koen on 3 September 2009, 10:44:07
What a headache. >:(  That's too bad Koen.  I was very lucky when I built mine, I had no problems.  It sucks how they try to rip you off. :reddevil:


Sapphire sent an email to Azerty last night trying to explain that there IS an issue with about 5% of the cards.
Therefore they didn't take ALL cards back but do replace the bad ones for free and immediately.

Azerty has proven to me they are lazy dumbasses...very unprofessional  :reddevil:


Title: Re: Buying a new PC!
Post by: Koen on 3 September 2009, 21:45:45
the old card is back home...email sent to Sapphire that it's ready for pick-up

so testing and sending back costs have been solved, now the 16€ for sending it to Azerty is all that's left...we'll see what I can do about that?


Title: Re: Buying a new PC!
Post by: Koen on 17 October 2009, 18:35:55
October 17 2009

the new PC is working....after some 30-35 emails...sending the graphics card to Holland and back, sending it to Hungary and back we now came to the conclusion that the guy who installed my PC first forgot to connect 1 cable to the motherboard...Shole!

Someone from my new work had a look and said after 3-4 seconds...huh...I think that 1 cable wasn't connected...

so all the mailing and shipping wasn't needed  hdbng hdbng hdbng hdbng hdbng hdbng

what's the difference between 'I can install a new PC' and 'I know how to install a new PC'....waited 2 1/2 months for nothing....

all good now...finally!  smallclap

and WaT looks great at a new 24" screen!  :D


Title: Re: Buying a new PC!
Post by: Tanker on 18 October 2009, 18:14:19
So much frustration huh?  Perhaps next time (for you know there will be a next time) you can put it together yourself.  You know you can't do worse.


Title: Re: Buying a new PC!
Post by: Koen on 18 October 2009, 18:21:57
So much frustration huh?  Perhaps next time (for you know there will be a next time) you can put it together yourself.  You know you can't do worse.


maybe....learned alot...that's for sure  :cry: