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Author Topic: Amateur landing?  (Read 3297 times)
Koen
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« on: 30 May 2009, 18:53:30 »
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The principal gateway to St. Barths (SBH) is through Juliana Airport in nearby Dutch St.Maarten, where flights arrive daily from both the USA and Europe.

St Barths airport
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Rattler
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« Reply #1 on: 31 May 2009, 16:29:28 »
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Don´t really think so: These Seneca and TwinOtter/Aztec drivers go there all the time and in theory know what they are doing (and also need a special "terrain qualifying" rating/certification), but St, Barth is one of the more challenging landing strips I know (1650 usable feet of 2100, 10 degrees downhill on Rwy 10, and entering straight into threshold from above a hill of 200ft).

If you are not well versed in this type of (actually outside or emergency) type of landings and have the wind change as you come in, you are in trouble, as there is hardly a way you can do a rapid turn-around (though I would definitely include this vid into turn-around training as I believe there was time for one - he should never even have touched down IMO), the distance to the hill in front of you seems wider in the vid than it actually is. I suspect there also might have been some brake probs involved.

Surprisingly the strip has a not bad safety record (20 dead in a DHC-6 TwinOtter crash 2001, several hit trucks and stuff on the road that recently has been moved in 2004 w/o injuries):

http://aviation-safety.net/database/airport/airport.php?id=SBH

Quote
Narrative:
The Twin Otter plane was on a 10-minute inter island flight between St. Maarten and Saint-Barthélémy and approached Saint-Barthélémy from the West for a visual approach and landing on runway 10. While on finals over the 'Col de la Tourmente', the aircraft was seen making a sharp turn to the left. The Twin Otter struck a house on the 'Col de la Tourmente' and caught fire. A man on the ground was also killed and his wife was injured. While on finals the captain probably
selected "beta reverse range" on the propellers in order to slow down. Upon vigorously pushing back the power levers to their normal position, an asymmetric power condition developed. The Twin Otter rolled to the left and crashed.
Saint-Barthélémy is known for the difficult approach to the airport and pilots flying into Saint-Barthélémy need to have a special certification. After overflying 'Col de la Tourmente' a quick steep descent has to be made to land at runway 10, a 2100 feet runway which ends up in sea. The aircraft overfly the 'Col de la Tourmente' at a height of 10m or less.

PROBABLE CAUSES: "The accident appears to result from the Captain's use of the propellers in the reverse beta range, to improve control of his track on short final. A strong thrust asymmetry at the moment when coming out of the reverse beta range would have caused the loss of yaw control, then roll control of the aircraft.
The investigation could not exclude three other hypotheses which can nevertheless be classified as quite unlikely:
- A loss of control during a go-around.
- A loss of control due to a stall.
- A loss of control due to sudden incapacitation of one of the pilots.
The Captain's lack of recent experience on this airplane type, the undeniable difficulty of conducting an approach to runway 10 at Saint-Barthélemy and the pressure of time during this flight were contributory factors. The low height at which the loss of control occurred was an aggravating factor."



Check some of those vids about *normal* landing procedures, both from outside as from cockpit and you will see the problem (click on the youtube logo in the first one as insertion has been deactivated and you need to view it there):





Cockpit View:



A nice one this 737 sim stuff (first one admittedly landing on 28, much easier, but go-around might be botched if necessary):



Rattler
« Last Edit: 31 May 2009, 16:41:03 by Rattler » Logged

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Koen
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« Reply #2 on: 31 May 2009, 17:30:16 »
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first one admittedly landing on 28


did a 737 actually land there  Huh?
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Rattler
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« Reply #3 on: 31 May 2009, 19:44:03 »
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first one admittedly landing on 28


did a 737 actually land there  Huh?


Not that I knew of. I know for sure a Transie did, and I have heard that a Herc did also.

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Koen
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« Reply #4 on: 31 May 2009, 21:35:25 »
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first one admittedly landing on 28


did a 737 actually land there  Huh?


Not that I knew of. I know for sure a Transie did, and I have heard that a Herc did also.

Rattler


because they can limit their landing length due to their short-landing capabilities?
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« Reply #5 on: 1 June 2009, 00:24:55 »
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Transall, just about:
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Landing distance: 1630 ft (40.1 Tons weight)


Herc, depending on weight, might also make it:

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Min landing distance at min landing weight 1150 ft
Min landing distance at max landing weight 2020 ft


Rattler
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Rattler
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« Reply #6 on: 1 June 2009, 00:44:49 »
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...oops, forgot to change IDs...

Well, talking the C130, there once was a STOL program developed (YMC-130 Combat Talon Operation Credible Sport, initially for Iran Hostage Rescue in the ´80s) that could make it airborne and roll out within 150 feet, if and when it worked (disbanded AFAIK, the a/c dubbed YMC 130 H, for some reason the vid has to load fully before displaying)

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Koen
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« Reply #7 on: 1 June 2009, 11:32:31 »
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IMPRESSIVE video  Geschokt

I have seen JATO test and footage before but not on a Herc...WooooWWWWW  iconclap

Do you want to make a topic on the subject?

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