NCO Club: Off Topic Discussions => The Aisles: Non-military News and Snippets => Topic started by: Koen on 1 March 2009, 22:40:01



Title: What's your opinion?
Post by: Koen on 1 March 2009, 22:40:01
is this cop very tough?

http://www.liveleak.com/e/b3e_1235796552 (http://www.liveleak.com/e/b3e_1235796552)

more info:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008794130_webdeputy27m.html?syndication=rss (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008794130_webdeputy27m.html?syndication=rss)
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20060609&slug=copshooting09m (http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20060609&slug=copshooting09m)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/28/paul-schene-king-county-d_n_170786.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/28/paul-schene-king-county-d_n_170786.html)
http://www.wikio.co.uk/news/Paul+Schene (http://www.wikio.co.uk/news/Paul+Schene)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDg_IFHEau0&eurl=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/28/paul-schene-king-county-d_n_170786.html&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDg_IFHEau0&eurl=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/28/paul-schene-king-county-d_n_170786.html&feature=player_embedded)


Title: Re: What's your opinion?
Post by: Rattler on 1 March 2009, 23:54:28
Quote
"We believe this case is beyond just police misconduct, it's criminal misconduct," King County Prosecutor Daniel Satterberg said. "This is clearly excessive force."

Satterberg added the case is uncommon because cameras captured the entire incident.


To the first part of the quote, indeed (!!).

Lets for a moment assume the girl truly and illegally was involved in an auto theft (and this is courtesey, by constitution and law in any normal democracy we would not have to), the cop in question wont pass the slightest civil rights focussed sructiny, I would not want to have my daughter pass through that. Never.

You simply do not do that to a 15 yrs old girl. If you do, you are a criminal and have to become prosecuted (and let the judge then decide whether you had too much strain in you job as an excuse).

I donĀ“t know whether you remember what you did when you were around that age, but when my sergeant once (w/o any factual reason, because I really had not done anything) reprimanded and factually punished me for an issue, after my complaint, told me: "Well, maybe I was wrong in this case, but *you* view this punishment for one of the other cases where I did not see you!". I could easily relate to that one, factually.

When I was 15, I had already robbed and driven (that was the actual motive) 5 or 6 cars, had stayed in the women quaqrters of my mil school overnight (and later got caught in a cupboard and expelled), had driven motorbikes w/o insurance etc., all what a teenager does sometimes to impress (the friends, the parents or himself).

I did this, my sons(daughters) did it.

The point is to make them learn (as my parents, cops and the judge did various times where I was concerned, I worked a total of 200 hours in hospital kitchens on weekends when I was between 14 and 16, leanred a lot and after 18/19 cannot recall having had any form of antisocial conduct...) that there are consequences for what you do, and you will have to bear them. Fine. Happened to me, have been through that with my kids.

But no assault on my daughter.

Rattler

P.S.: (on 2.: After some incididents in Catalunya now these cameras in Spain are obligatory in all state, national and regional police stations, and I think that is ok). R.


Title: Re: What's your opinion?
Post by: FACman on 2 March 2009, 07:14:43
Not only is this officer not very tough, he's not very smart either, as those are not hidden cameras. He doesnt appear to have the basic intelligence to handle his assigned task. He may be better suited to wrangle parking meters. Though not until he can prove he has the necessary skills to deal with an irate 'customer', in a more detached frame of mind.

I hope the lessons to be learned, by both the subjects of the vid, are not wasted...


Title: Re: What's your opinion?
Post by: Alan65 on 2 March 2009, 19:08:13
Videos like this never tell the complete story. It looks like the officier used excessive force (in fact, actually, closing the door would have been a good reaction as mentioned above); it looks like the girl is a punk who better straighten out her attitude. Not knowing what was done or said in the previous 30-60 minutes I won't judge either of them beyond this. 

Shame on the judge for releasing this video (the defense lawyer asked it not be released.)  This will lead other arrestees to kick their shoes at other officiers.  A stereotyped view of the King county--or perhaps the US--justice system is on the web for all to see. Let's face it, "normal" situations don't make the YouTube cut!  Arrestees may or may not be guilty, but they certainly aren't 'victims' of a police state who need to lash out at the authority figure saddled with processing them.



Title: Re: What's your opinion?
Post by: FACman on 2 March 2009, 19:48:45
Just like in football, the Ref usually misses the first blow, but rarely misses the guy throwing the obligatory, retaliatory blow. I admit, there is much we dont know...I mean in this day and age of assasination attempts on Presidents with shoes, shoe bombs in airliners...buying shoes online, well, you just never know. Its got to be tough to be a screw, these days.

J


Title: Re: What's your opinion?
Post by: Alan65 on 2 March 2009, 21:07:30
Well, FACman, I hadn't even thought of the 'shoe' aspect of it!  My first thought while watching it was I'd like to hear the audio; she appears to be saying something right before she kicks off her shoe.  "I'm going to kill you" would certainly mitigate the officer's reaction in my mind.  Let alone her actions/words in the previous time in custody.

The officer appears to over-react, as I said.  Perhaps the taxpayers of King County will find themselves supporting an officer with the 'victim mentality' if he goes on disabiltiy for a shin bruise. 


Title: Re: What's your opinion?
Post by: stoffel on 3 March 2009, 15:19:51
It doesnt matter what she might have said.
You are( supposed to be) trained to deal with that , if you cant handle a girl like that you are not qualified to be a policeofficer.

Whats next?
Shooting somebody for not walking on the sidewalks?


Title: Re: What's your opinion?
Post by: Rattler on 3 March 2009, 19:40:33
.snip- Not knowing what was done or said in the previous 30-60 minutes...


With all due respect, I beg to object: It is not important at all (mabe as an attenuance in front of court) what was said or done in the minutes before:

A police officer, by definition, is executive and has no juridical powers whatosever, hence - apart from excerting executive violence to make detainees comlply - has not to judge or to react ot stuff that is no threat to executive procedures.

Dont like what the girl said? Put it into the dossier for the judge to review.

Kicked a shoe in your direction? Lets assume for a moment that this rarely could be considered as a lethal or even physically endangering threat, put it into the dossier, close the door, keep the shoe. Again, for a judge to review and assess.

Punishment is for juridical power, not for exectuive in my book, stoffel is right on track here: If we flinch at the "minor" excursions from exctuive conduct, we soon will see major ones.

Let me make it clear that I am strictily talking about the vid in question, had she kicked him from short distance and hit his shinbone a slap to get her into line might be something I as parent would make clear to my daugther as "logical" reflective consequence to her actions and the pain induced and as a lesson to be learned for the future. I wont press charges against the officer (I know some of my friends disagree on that point) in thhis case. In the vid case I would, as it is completely disconnected from anything reflective and simply shows a misunderstaning of what your job description means.

My 2c,

Rattler


Title: Re: What's your opinion?
Post by: FACman on 3 March 2009, 22:24:16
As the parent of a police officer, it has long been a concern of mine, that my son remain in contact with his feelings of empathy. As a combat veteran of a different type of conflict, I know to well, what the effect upon ones psyche can be, when exposed to the horrors that are incidental to the job. When we talk, I always look for signs of the 'us vs them' callousness, that as a result of the pressures of the job, can cloud ones judgment. My task in this case, is to remind him of the enormous responsibility he carries, and to remember that the rule of law trumps personal prejudices and feelings. Lose your cool and you will lose your career.
I sure wish he was a bartender again.

(http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww278/sgtfaust/Friends%20and%20Family/PetreMotorofficerjpg.jpg)

J


Title: Re: What's your opinion?
Post by: Alan65 on 4 March 2009, 22:23:31
the front page of the local Seattle paper today says that the Federal Government is investigating to see if the teen's civil rights were violated. 
the officer is counter-suing the teen.


Title: Re: What's your opinion?
Post by: BlueSixGolf on 6 March 2009, 06:10:06
During law school, I participated in a clinic and interned one summer with the prosecutor's office of a local town.  My first job after school was as an appellate law clerk.  When my clerkship was over, rather than getting a job prosecuting as I had always intended, I applied for the local public defender's office.  I had seen too much abuse of rights in two years of reviewing criminal cases.

I've been with the public defender's office for several years now.  That is not the first time I've seen a video tape like that.  And I'm rather confident, watching the video and seeing how effortlessly he does his 'work', that that is not the first time that that officer savagely beat someone because he felt disrespected.

There are plenty of good cops out there.  My nephew's father is one of them.  In fact, I honestly believe that most cops are good people doing a tough job.  But I'm also certain that law enforcement is a profession that attracts a largely disproportionate share of bullies.  The extent to which their brother and sister officers protect and shelter bullies like the officer in the video creates a risk not only to members of the public, respect for the rule of law, but also to all other officers themselves.

That officer needs to be prosecuted.