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Author Topic: Pirates strike again...  (Read 2971 times)
MontyB
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« on: 3 March 2011, 08:00:15 »
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Somali mission: Pirates capture 4 Americans
The Jakarta Post   |  Sat, 02/19/2011 7:24 PM  |  World

Somalia's U.N. Mission said Friday that pirates hijacked a yacht carrying four U.S. citizens in the Indian Ocean off the Somali coast.

Omar Jamal, first secretary at the Somali mission, identified the yacht as the S/V Quest.

He said the mission is calling for the immediate release of the hostages and all other captives who are in the hands of the pirates.

Jamal said the hijacking raises "serious concern" as it follows the sentencing in New York on Thursday of a Somali pirate who kidnapped and brutalized the captain of a U.S.-flagged merchant ship off the coast of Africa in 2009. Abdiwali Abdiqadir Muse was sentenced to 33 years in prison.

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Rattler
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« Reply #1 on: 3 March 2011, 08:14:47 »
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We are a bit late here: The report dates from Friday FEB 19.

The Americans have been killed and the yacht sunk on Tueasday FEB 23, probably as result of a botched attempt on negotiaing (detaining the negotiating pirates) from the USS Sterett sailors:

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/02/hostages-did-imprisoning-pirates-spur-quest-killings/

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MontyB
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« Reply #2 on: 3 March 2011, 08:17:21 »
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Sorry will add the second part to complete the story...


22 February 2011 Last updated at 18:28 GMT Share this pageFacebookTwitterShareEmailPrint
Hijacked Americans 'killed by captors' off Somalia

Four Americans hijacked by Somali pirates off the coast of Oman have been killed by their captors, US defence officials say.

The US military said its forces trailing the vessel had responded to gunfire heard aboard but found all the captives shot when they arrived.

The yacht S/V Quest, hijacked on Friday, was owned and sailed by Scott and Jean Adam of California.

Also killed were two US passengers, Phyllis Macay and Bob Riggle.


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Yossarian
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« Reply #3 on: 4 March 2011, 20:09:44 »
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Call me cynic,

but is there no other lucrative enterprise that can occupy them from attacking yahcts and merchant vessels? Holding my countrymen hostage is no way to earn a new living Rollende ogen

I know that sounds horrid, but seeing as there is no progress let alone attempts from the Somalis themselves to improve their situation, let alone work with the world community that has attempted to improve their situation, and remove them from resorting to things like piracy, then things like this might not happen as often in that portion of the world.

I understand the country is gripped by various warlords, small arms trafficking, and extreme drug issues, but when things such as the disruption of international trade for example begin to be targeted by the  woes of rouge governmentless states like Somali, then a true issue is being ignored somewhere else, other than international maritime security rears it's head here.

Especially when it ends in such tragedy Bedroefd

I hope they capture a ship carrying radioactive waste and there pirate boat sinks....
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Rattler
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« Reply #4 on: 4 March 2011, 23:05:23 »
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Yossarian, with all due respect:

As our politicians can only think ahead 4 years max (their election term) they cannot delve into long time strats (20 yrs?) that would be needed here to solve all the basic problems of Somalia to make them stop piracy:

- no government
- no state structure
- daily earning 10 cents average
- traditional jobs destroyed by the "mighty" western companies
etc., just to name a few.

It has taken 100 years to lead the place to the disaster, now we intend to solve the problem wihtin an election term?

Of course, and as so often advocated and so often tried, there is the "kill them all" theory, but this will only work out with a nuclear strike, else the numbers are against you, there are 12.000 sakiffs out there, and just 20 intl ships )double it and they double).

What are the optiuons (if just sinking ships, attacking pirate bases etc. does not work), see it from the Somali side for a second to determine:

Imagine you - certainly a straigthforward amiable and value based person -  would live in the above conditions. Y0u got 20 children, 50 grand children, and 12 brothers with about the same number of family members. You once were a fisherman, but then the big western companies came and dumped (paying by your warlords who you hate) their chemical waste they cannot legally deposit in the civilized countries in your sea, and a few of your sons, brothers, bnephews and grand children die because of this. Then there come at the same time the big ships of the big fishing nations (which dont find fish anymore elsewhere because they killed it all) and in 5 years you cannot even make your 10 cents a day going fishing.

Now, with your clan running 400 people more or less, no state that takes care of you, your income gone, your people dying you suddenly see a valid opportunity to make not 10 cents but the ten-thousand fold, in three month: 10000$!

Even if half of your children died, and two thirds of your nephews and grand children, if just one succeeds you will have made enough not only to feed and cherish your clan for the next 3 years, but also to develop it further, buy influenc in your corrupt juridical system, etc...

What would you as clan chief decide?

Personally, I have no doubt and would order as such in the same siutuation, without the least remorse: Go for them! OK, so they sink a few of our skiffs, some prey doesnt yield ransom, but we are able to learn, and its a matter of survival to my clan, and in the end we will survive (maybe some 4 yachtsmen not, but whats that to just the 50 last year of my clan?).

I have no quarrels personally with this attitude, I re-iterate: With authority and being in the same situation I would do the same. As being Rattler I would maybe send a few on the risky survival trip to Europe (just this month 600 illegal immigration attempts via sea from Africa to Europe ended in death of the immigrant) to spread the risk, maybe I would see whether I could get an ONG to spend something on my people. I certainly would NOT lean back and do nothing. I would have no other means than to do the described, and after long contemplation the idea would be clear: "They have it because they took it from us, they deny us even a chance to get even, they dont care about us, pay them back and lets play the same game. Howgh!"

If challenged to the morality or the values behind, apart from what I pointed out above, I would ask: Are you not all for capitalism? And, with my low educational level I would probably ask all the right questions which would never make it to the news nets...

The real crooks in this thingy are, without order of priority:

- the big fishing companies (Captain, mates and "regular" personnell earn around 3000 $ a month, that equivalates the hundredfold or 8 (!) years of salary of the normal Somali - ion one month! Of course, as we are hypocrites -call me cynical - the rest of the crew only earns 1$ a day, and we justify this with "Whats the problem? We pay 10x the normal salary!?")

- Berlusconi, Shell, Nestle: The three major players in illegally dumping stuff where they wont be prosecuted, for big bucks (100 $+ minimum a ton, the equivalent of three (!) years work of one Somali!)

- us for not sharing 10 cents a day (36 $ a year) for preventing a child over there having no option but becoming pirate

- us for allowing that we dont get a true picture of what is going on in the world if its not news transmitted, and for allowing our politicians to be re-elected when they fails so grossly

I am not your classical tree hugger, but I have travelled a lot and looked at people and situations (Are you rich? I can show you around!), and I cannot close my eyes to the simple and plain cruel facts and to noticing that/why "we" are now paying a price for our own intentional/systematical ignorance: Once it costs money suddenly everybody is alert! Hypocrites we are!

What is worse, nobody wants to see that this is just the start (and the start is a bit advanced already with what we see around the MEd right now, also something nobody wanted to see coming as it did not cost but earned us money the last 40 years):

- Where will the fishing companies go once they have finished Somalia? Take a look, orient your business: This is where the next pirates will be arising

- If Somalia ever should get back an organized state system (which is something none of the biggies is interested in, the waste would have to go leagal or another place would have to be found - actually this move is going on already), where would we dump our unwanted but too expensive waste?

- When suddenly 50 Million (compared to the 500.000) each year try to cross the ponds in boats, how the hell will we stop them? Kill them all? Gadafi would laugh at us in his grave, even with bombing he just got 6.000 or so, Hitler got a total of 6 Million Jews, Russia lost 20 Million.

Africa has 1.200 millions, 80% live on under 2.50$ a month, and 90% of them want out (to where you earn that a day even as a slave, Asia or Europe). That they not all have jumped yet is just because they lack resources. But it *will* happen, eventually, with the same security we knew the Wall would fall one day.

What answers will we have then? Mexican ingress to US is just ridiculous compared to this. Currently and now, when we could start formulating them answers, nobody does not even want to think about them: No money in it...

Now, call my cynical.

FWIW

Rattler
« Last Edit: 4 March 2011, 23:19:54 by Rattler » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: 4 March 2011, 23:59:59 »
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The last time the US dealt with this kind of piracy, the US Marines ended up with a verse in their song that talks about the "Halls of Tripoli", which refers to the invasion of the pirates operational bases and the cleaning out of those bases.

Good Hunting.

MR
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« Reply #6 on: 5 March 2011, 00:29:02 »
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When was this? Against whom? Marroco/Algerian/Tripoli war +/- 1800 or so? Where were the pirate then, those were state supported bucaneers (following the glorious RN tradition of employing them, the same did the UK and Spain in the Med, it was a habit and tradition for over 800 years), and with all the central state employed problems of beaurocracy (the same on the US side: France botched up in protecting their civil shipping as promised). IIRC around 1 Million of $ was paid initially to free captured US sailors (civil) to Marocco or Algeria (who at the time were the ruling pirate force in the Med), but then it led to the building of the US Navy.

The battle of the Enterprise against the Tripoli had NO economic or military effect, but changed the morale and hence the support and the overall war layout. The battle against Tripoli has cost a lot (USS Intrepid lost with all hands and commander), and in the end was won by 8 Marines, again with no military or economic effect on piracy, but a political victory.

This time it does not work that way, those people have no state and fight/ransom for their clans: Kill some, there are more, and more angry afterwards. Check the data here (outdated by just two month, but it looks we will face another rise, and monsson has just finished: Expect an explosion in the next two month): http://www.warandtactics.com/smf/the-military-newsflash/losing-the-pirate-war/msg17487/#msg17487

EDITED from here downwards in a way that alteres the idea of the original post.

From my experience, trying to cure symptoms where the cause remains is just a fruitless exercise.

Think! Why dont we bring our slave lords like Shell, Nestle and Mr. Berlusconi to trial (which they deserve IMHO and would not survive poplitically/penally/politically) but try and kill the pirates which do around 1% of the harm that those crooks do counted in economical or human resource equivalents? Because there is no interest in doing so: How did Gadafi amass 60.000.000.000 Millions when his people just earn a $ a day? Because we allow it to be stolen, from his people, from our taxes, etc., in comissions etc., even if its obvious and agains the law. His private stolen patrimony equals 88 yeas of pirate ransom worldwide. The Egyptian Mubarak had another 50.000.000.000 $ stowd away under his bed, another 60 years of pirate ransom worldwide...

"Oh, we just now found out he is 1.5x as rich as Bill Gates? Who would have thought, he seemed such a nice guy! You sure he stole it?" vs. "Pirates! Pirates! Look, this year they caused 12 Million $ of economic losses! Gotta kill them all!"

Hypocrites we are...

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« Reply #7 on: 5 March 2011, 00:56:17 »
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The First Barbary War (1801–1805), also known as the Barbary Coast War or the Tripolitan War.

The US and the world as a whole doesn't take quick action against pirates on the high seas. Or nations that harbor them. But when they do it's dramatic. I would think the "military" option gets closer each time hostages are killed.

Good Hunting.

MR
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MontyB
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« Reply #8 on: 5 March 2011, 01:03:19 »
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Just out of interest why is it my job to fix Somalia?

I can not honestly say I care whether Somalians want to kill each other by the bus load and I am convinced that actively hunting pirates around the country rather than just reacting to an attack will be successful by this I mean station ships right off the coast and stop everything going in and out if they attack a ship bomb the snot out of the ports they leave from and any support bases they may have until the risks of carrying out piracy outweigh the benefits from doing it.

If there is any group within Somalia that is trying to improve the place then by all means throw support behind them as we should be doing with all these popular uprisings in the middle east but outside that if they want to live in the stone age I say let them.
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Rattler
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« Reply #9 on: 5 March 2011, 01:13:01 »
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Sorry, just edited my post above, might want to double check why I think we should either fix Somalia or our part, fixing being needed and overdue.

Rattler
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« Reply #10 on: 5 March 2011, 05:44:46 »
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Sorry, just edited my post above, might want to double check why I think we should either fix Somalia or our part, fixing being needed and overdue.

Rattler


Nah I am growing ever tired of the worlds ills being the wests fault, its not fair that we built a safe, affluent society while the poor [insert third world shit hole of choice here] chose to destroy any and all infrastructure because some retarded military officer has a bigger faction than the last one.

The only investment I can recommend for half these "countries" is in a couple of well placed thermonuclear devices, wipe out poverty, disease and terrorism in one hit.
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