NCO Club: Off Topic Discussions => The Aisles: Non-military News and Snippets => Topic started by: Rattler on 23 February 2012, 01:11:14



Title: OK, so our kids are the enemy...!?
Post by: Rattler on 23 February 2012, 01:11:14
Valencia (Spain), during the last days:

As the government announced that it will shorten salaries for teachers by 25% to reduce the public deficit, pupils of one institute of Valencia decided to have a protest sit-in (Valencia is the city where just the top 5 politicians robbed 40 Millions of public money with a 100% flowback to their own pockets to give it to some "Event organizers" - now all in prison - and who paid some 1.5 Millions to Mr. Urdangarin, the husband of the Kings daughter for "organizing a Congress" without the obligatory concourse - Matas:  "...why a concourse, after all, he is the Duke of Palma...").

So, those kids of 10-17 years sit on the street, all with books in their hands, to ask for less cuts of budget for education:

(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQImNv-Gww0QM-0D4wlOJtMNHLFBHYZ0UfabMKlQha8CADqL1XV)

Enter: The Police (the "anti-violence" brigade in Spanish), and beats up the mayority of those kids and their teachers, heavily:

Carga Policial Estudiantes Valencia.wmv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2ktcv4mA0c#)

So far, all SNAFU. But then:

In the aftermath, after having 6 kids with liver rupture, 62 people (the majority under 14 yrs of age) detained and the politicians and police under heavy cross fire it is getting more than absurd, it is getting worrysome:

- First, the lady boss of the Police in Valencia (Delegate fo Interior), declares that she has no data, and that "it is only the police who decides when to charge and when not to, after all they are the only responsible for maintaining the order" (basically stating that her job is superfluent if that was true: Up to now police only acted on political decisions)

(http://ep00.epimg.net/ccaa/imagenes/2012/02/21/valencia/1329853622_730196_1329854491_sumario_normal.jpg)

- 2nd, a press conference of Antonio Moreno, the Chief of Police in Valencia, who stated (with a decisive smack on his table): "If the enemy attacks, you have to show the enemy where your force lies. The enemy short cutted a vital traffic artery through the city, and -snip- we had to get the enemy off the street to open traffic again". Asked about the liver ruptures he re-iterated: "That is the way we train: A hit to the liver is the fastest way to take out the enemy" (the guy is still in charge, 3 days later).

Later, in the same conference he declared: "Look, we live in a state of law. It is a judges decision whether our use of force was proportional or not, not mine". Let us remember here that we talk about 10-17 yr old pupils having a sit in, books in their hands... (in the following vid the start is the original interview, the rest is interpretation by one of our TV night shows who dubbed Moreno "The Sheriff of Valencia", but rightly so and way to the point from my POV, it ends with "Dancing for Peace in Valencia", in the end the Spaniard has a great capacity to laugh into the face of the absurd, as the absurd is part of everyday life here... :) ):

Antonio Moreno, Sheriff de Valencia, "marca el compás" al "enemigo" (El Intermedio) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX4k4ybiPjs#ws)

- 3rd: Our Minister of Interior (of Spain, not the region of Valencia), begs pardon for some "unfortunate actions of the police forces that might have occured", but 6 hours later rectifies: "We have serious data showing that the pupils were infiltrated by heavily armed radicals and attacking the security forces, and I was referring to *their* actions earlier..." (because in the middle of the two statements the Police Union had accused him of "politically coward and morally abhorrent" for "not closing files with the men and women who work for state").

(http://skp00.epimg.net/Imagenes/7F/E7/1329952939-b83972af288829591da5495e62389b9c.jpg)

He then presented an "arsenal of arms" taken off the "radicals", in photos (nice: As always in such photos it says "The police that you want" above):

(http://skp00.epimg.net/Imagenes/59/B2/1329953105-6a1851eec404848a551a09945c825069.jpg)

Asked if he would not find this ridiculous and how he could refer to books as arms he contsted: "I am sure you know that even books, in the hands of people who know how to use them, can be lethal weapons"...

Many members of parliament today asked his head:

(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTBg-AxuDtS2gn1nLwbuL58SKWowvABVsZMnA4M47pOv245dCfhlg)

Suffice to say that today in Spain we have had between 500.000 and 2 Million people on the street (total, in all mayor cities, and it will be more on the weekend) claiming "These are our arms" with books in their hands.

This is just the start, we are going down the drain, folks, at least morally: The enemy is out there, and he has books, and many of them! Where has the world come to....

(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQovIUTcF886tXlseKsOderOlcreEWwoWxobYPpj4QA6Kpu-dmGWg)

Rattler





Title: Re: OK, so our kids are the enemy...!?
Post by: MontyB on 23 February 2012, 02:59:24
So the police in Spain can attack children?
I am appalled I did not know this sooner, do they recruit from outside Spain?

:)

Sorry kids piss me off.

:)


Title: Re: OK, so our kids are the enemy...!?
Post by: stoffel on 23 February 2012, 10:48:19
As allways there are two sides.
Were they allowed to demonstrate?
Did any of those kids threw stones or other stuff we cant see on ther pictures to get the police angry?

Normally police isnt equiped like this to remove children from the street.


Title: Re: OK, so our kids are the enemy...!?
Post by: Koen on 23 February 2012, 20:40:58
(http://skp00.epimg.net/Imagenes/59/B2/1329953105-6a1851eec404848a551a09945c825069.jpg)

this picture says enough... or it's from a comedy show or some people are loosing grip of reality  smallclap


Title: Re: OK, so our kids are the enemy...!?
Post by: Rattler on 23 February 2012, 22:23:28
So the police in Spain can attack children?
I am appalled I did not know this sooner, do they recruit from outside Spain?

:)

Sorry kids piss me off.

:)

No, and No, and Yes Me 2

As allways there are two sides.

Only if you insist to see them. From my POV there are definite show stoppers to search for the other side.

Were they allowed to demonstrate?

Luckily we live in a state form called "constitutional monarchical democracy" (like you in NL) where a constitution defines the rights that you dont have to ask permission for, Freedom of Expression (of thoughts, opinions and ideas contrary to the government e.g.) is one of them.

Did any of those kids threw stones or other stuff we cant see on ther pictures to get the police angry?

No. But they held up books (I saw a "Descartes: Discourses part 2" with my own eyes!) which according to our minister of interior can be viewd as "lethal weapons" if you look at them from the other side (if you see two, that is).

Normally police isnt equiped like this to remove children from the street.

Indeed, but this was against "the enemy"... Just for the record and to save their honor, as they are the anti-violence police unit (National Police Unit) they always run around and go out like this.

([url]http://skp00.epimg.net/Imagenes/59/B2/1329953105-6a1851eec404848a551a09945c825069.jpg[/url])

this picture says enough... or it's from a comedy show or some people are loosing grip of reality  smallclap

It is the official photo the Valencian (regional) minister of interior used to explain the police charge, not from a comedy show.

Yesterday night 100k ppl out in Valencia, under the theme (in Valencian Catalan): "Som el poble, no l´enemic" (= "We are the people, not the enemy"), no police, and (hence?) no violence...

(http://www.que.es/archivos/201202/valencia_n-365xXx80.jpg)

(http://warandtactics.com/Images/peoplenotenemy.jpg)

Danger! Children!
(http://www.elplural.com/wp-content/uploads/valencia2.jpg)

Rattler


Title: Re: OK, so our kids are the enemy...!?
Post by: Mad_Russian on 23 February 2012, 23:55:20
All the uprisings around the Med have everybody nervous I would think. One sure way to make everybody nervous is to attack some kids holding a sit in.

What is so frightening to governments when Kids sit down to protest something? It seems governments answer to that is to hurt them somehow. Various degrees of violence against them. The next thing that happens is the kids stop being peaceful and all hell breaks loose.

Which I imagine is now getting ready to happen in Spain if it hasn't already.

Good Hunting.

MR


Title: Re: OK, so our kids are the enemy...!?
Post by: stoffel on 24 February 2012, 13:51:52
I do agree with the kids.
Was just being a bit sarcastic about it.
On the other hand a Krav Maga expert can kill you with all the items on the picture :-)
And the phone... communication can be more dangerous than weapons.


Title: Re: OK, so our kids are the enemy...!?
Post by: Rattler on 24 February 2012, 21:36:43
I do agree with the kids.
Was just being a bit sarcastic about it.
On the other hand a Krav Maga expert can kill you with all the items on the picture :-)
And the phone... communication can be more dangerous than weapons.


Then allow me a bit of cynism, too: If we don´t have money anymore to teach them Maths (because we have to cut down a little bit to save our banks, nothing left for health or education), where do you think we will raise the dough to pay Close Combat teachers?

All the uprisings around the Med have everybody nervous I would think. One sure way to make everybody nervous is to attack some kids holding a sit in.


Yes, definitely, and more so in this culture where kids are saints by definition.

...Kids sit down to protest something? It seems governments answer to that is to hurt them somehow. Various degrees of violence against them. The next thing that happens is the kids stop being peaceful and all hell breaks loose.


Indeed, that is what we saw: First day they just detained a few 12 years old for obstruction of traffic, next day - when the manifestation went in contra of this act - all hell broke loose.

Which I imagine is now getting ready to happen in Spain if it hasn't already.


I sincerely doubt that (for now and the near future). We will, of course, see a lot of street manifestatons of all kind of groups that are hurt by what our current (right wing) government has put out to reduce the debts we have with the international bankers.

But, as I see it, "Spain is different" (google it for subtilities involved and perceived):

- A long culture to keep your mouth shut (Franco only died in ´75, democracy by constitution was given in 79) for all people older than 55+ yrs

- An even longer culture to never say or do anything offensive (if not for outright and intentional provocation), coming from the 800 yrs of Arab ruling, deeply imprinted in the minds of everybody here (though only a minority is actually aware of tis being the reason). It is forbidden to say "no" to any request, you have to invent something less offensive, e.g. "tomorrow", or "I phone you and clear details" to state that you will not, under no circumstances whatever, do what your client/friend/adversary requests.

- Seriously violent confrontations about politics or religion are a "no-no" here, the memories of the Civil War where brother fought brother, husband his wife, fathers their sons etc. is still too close to have been forgotten, many families, villages and the people as a whole remain traumatized: They know that when they start violence there wont be a limit. This said, should a violent reaction occur, there will be *no* liimits, also part of the culture (but as dogs still are around despite showing off every 5 minutes that they are ready to fight because agression has been ritualized, same occurs for the Spanish society, in this I think we are decades ahead of e.g. nations that have not had a Civil War recently).

- Courtesy, maintinig form, stiff upper lip and a natural feeling for when you become ridiculous is also part of this culture (I think even the Engloish who invented all of this could learn  a bit here sometimes), as already stated the absurd is daily and "normal" occurence, all SNAFU is the Spanish way of seeing the world, always. Many movies, everything Bunuel, Saura, Almodovar but also stuff like "Welcome, Mr. Marshall" pay due tribute to this, especially the latter is a must to get an idea of the Spanish society - and why the Marshall Plan only worked in England France and Germany, but not here - : Grabbed 1953 - in plain dictatorship, a legendary and mythical masterpiece of art of stating subtily the opposite of what is visible and so escaping censorship: See last car - is the story of one village preparing weeks for the arrival of "Mr. Marshall" and the benefits he would bring, closing political and religious gaps over the expectation of "Los Americanos", doing everything they believed the Americans would like up to selling their national identity (they set up as Andalusians being from the center), and it ended like this (suffering in style - aka victimism - is also a very important part of the Spanish culture from my outsider POV, they *know* that what they will do is useless even before they start, but do it anyway, that makes them such a great people):

The end of Welcome Mr Marshall (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34GNAEsClVI#)

All this mentioned together makes it highly improbable (in the short term, no guarantees should a certain red line be crossed) that we will see a violent revolution here (15M might triumph, but violence would not be part of the scenario in this case).

Nothing wrong with beating kids off the street, but dont you dare call them "the enemy", obligatory it is to call them "the future" and that difference is what made people mad right now.

Rattler



Title: Re: OK, so our kids are the enemy...!?
Post by: stoffel on 25 February 2012, 11:06:22
When I look to my daughter study, several things I did notice.
Her school claims to be the same school I did in my youth.
We have 4 grades ranging from A to D with D being the most difficult level.
I did my study at D level.
Now the school my daughter is on claims to be that same level (25 years later)
When I look at her math and nature and other stuff its only A and in some times B level.
This worried me, at some extend schools are lowering their educational programs to get students.
After all if a student gets "good"results you attract more and that means more money.......