NCO Club: Off Topic Discussions => The Aisles: Non-military News and Snippets => Topic started by: Koen on 22 November 2011, 19:36:18



Title: Occupy USA
Post by: Koen on 22 November 2011, 19:36:18
I dunno what you guys are hearing/seeing but over here in Belgium we're recieving disturbing messages of extreme violence against the unarmed 'occupy' protesters across the US.

Seattle Police Attack Pregnant Jennifer Fox Aftermath (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F1ItGFF9sQ#ws)

It's not just one report but several videos I've seen so far...

11-16-11 1b - Pepper Spray Victim, with Dorli Rainey - Countdown with Keith Olbermann (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENfWJzXVD0Q#)

and this 3rd video shows that police has no idea to handle unarmed/violenceless demonstrators

I see no bricks flying, no firebombs, nothing....

Police pepper spraying and arresting students at UC Davis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmJmmnMkuEM#ws)

except for the videoquality this looks like videos from the 60s........


Title: Re: Occupy USA
Post by: Koen on 22 November 2011, 19:43:04
Seattle Police Attack Occupy Protesters with Chemical Weapons, Bikes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mwdCjXcTZM#ws)

again.... when does the violence start? AFTER people get sprayed with ALOT of pepperspray...

seems so strange that they know how to deal with nuclear threats, tanks, complete armies and more but.... HELL.... our own citizens are demonstrating peacefully.... WHAT NOW? HEEEEEEEEEEEEEELP  waa


Title: Re: Occupy USA
Post by: Koen on 22 November 2011, 19:53:11
Danny Glover Speaks to Occupy Oakland, October 15, 2011 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50IXNRiIuWg#ws)

just listen.... also for me this is a NEW thing that happens.... I'm learning and I do hope you do so also...


Title: Re: Occupy USA
Post by: Rattler on 24 November 2011, 01:11:05
I Germany or Spain, the above shown officers pepper spraying the students would have gone straigh to jail until questioned by the judge. §1 of our constitution: "The dignity of a person is above anything else".

But, alas, it shows how much the brokers (?) are afraid of us that want to (re)define what should make a human being in the 21st century.

Call it as you want, 15-M, Spanish Revolution, Occupy-Wall Street: They wont stop us now, not even with a war that is at the horizon of this GoldmannSachs planet (surprise, surprise: Monti in Italy and Papa-whatever in Greece are - not elected but appointed - Ex-GS employees...), they are talking numbers, we are talking souls.

We have been happily auto-enslaving ouselves readily and happily (and making profit from it), but the youth and the old ones are awaking (the middle class, we shall see if it survives), now it is our job to clean the mess up we produced.

When it comes to "No job, No home, No food" it is easily to come to the conlusion "Not afraid" for the young and the old who have nothing to lose but all to gain. The "My crisis - your profit" impact is too obvious by now to be ignored by even the dumbest in Europe (in the US I wont bet they will check it ever in their majority, they seem to be kind of proud of being against anything modern in the political sense of the word).

(http://avatar.hq-picture.com/avatars/img27/fatal_system_error_avatar_picture_16577.jpg)

What I have been saying since 11-S, and my two favorite punk rock bands are with me:

- There is no point in democracy when ignorance is celebrated.
- Majority rules: Won´t work in Mental Institutions.

The idiots have taken over...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZpSI2UNee8# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZpSI2UNee8#)

I am not a robot, I am not a monkey,
I wont dance on order even if the beat is funky!

The song lyrics  to the vid below (Linkin Park - When They Come For Me):

Quote
Yeah,

I am not
a pattern to be followed.
The pill that I'm on is a tough one to swallow.
I'm not a criminal, not a role model,
not a born leader.
I'm a tough act to follow.

I am not
the fortune and the fame,
nor the same person telling you to forfeit the game.
I came in the ring like a dog on a chain
and I found out the underbelly's sicker than it seems.
And its seems ugly, but it can get worse,
'cause even a blueprint is a gift and a curse,
'cause once you got a theory of how the thing works
everybody wants the next thing to be just like the first,

and I'm not a robot. I'm not a monkey.
I will not dance, even if the beat's funky.
Opposite of lazy - far from a punk.
You all ought to stop talking.
Start trying to catch up, motherfucker!

... and all the people say:
Try to catch up motherfucker!

Lauren said money change a situation.
Big said it increase the complication.
Kane said "Don't step. I ain't the one."
Chuck said that uzi weight a motherfucking ton.

And I'm just a student of the game that they taught me,
rocking every stage in every place that it brought me.
I'm awfully underrated,
but came here to correct it,
and so it ain't mistaken, I'mma state it for the record.

I am
the opposite of wack,
opposite of weak,
opposite of slack,
synoym of heat,
synonym of crack,
closest to a peak,
far from a punk.
You all ought to stop talking.
Start trying to catch up, motherfucker!

... and all the people say:
Try to catch up motherfucker!

Oh! When they come for me - come for me - I'll be gone!

... and all the people say:
Try to catch up motherfucker!
... and all the people say:
Try to catch up motherfucker!



Spanish Revolution 15M, Linkin Park - When They Come For Me (live in Madrid) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWSVTzrK0Lo#)

Wake up, slaves! What makes life worthwile? I am not anti-system, but it turned out that the system is obviously anti-me (and anti-you).

Lets hope this goes without too much blood shed, but if we look at all big moves in history I doubt we will be so lucky.

Rattler


Title: Re: Occupy USA
Post by: stoffel on 19 December 2011, 11:26:23
Well,

In Amsterdam and smaller cities around the town there have been occupy movements as well.
In many cases the people there did not care about their environment.
They shit on the pavewalks and between their tents, use drugs openly and dispose their garbage and drug waist like needles everywhere.
Also reports about some of them trying to occupy banks and of demolishing property.
Clashes have been reported between students and other youth with Occupy-ers.
Reasons enough for the government to arrest them and remove their tents.


Title: Re: Occupy USA
Post by: FACman on 20 December 2011, 02:58:28
Quote
They shit on the pavewalks and between their tents, use drugs openly and dispose their garbage and drug waist like needles everywhere.


Yes, this has definitely given the movement a black eye. It is certainly an example of the short sightedness of the movement's leadership. Now they have given their opponents ammunition to use against them, though the actual extent of these problems remains unclear in my eyes. My govt made up lies and incidents to get us involved in the Vietnam War, then trumped up more stories to kick off the Iraq War, why wouldn't they do the same in this Class War? That is to say, I would not be surprised to find out some of the offenders were in fact govt agents placed to discredit the movement.
 
Anytime you have a population such as a rock concert, sporting event (ie; World Cup/Super Bowl/World Series) in a small area, there are a certain percentage of miscreants who don't abide by our social norms, and exhibit poor behavior. So I am not surprised by their occurrence in the first instance.


Title: Re: Occupy USA
Post by: stoffel on 20 December 2011, 17:20:08
Trust me Jody,

I have seen the Amsterdam ,and near my town, Baarn movements.
There wasnt a single agent around I can tell you that.
If there would have been one he would have been found pretty soon, ists a small world.
Often you see the same ( workless) people who attend at every place where they can protest and it dont matter to them what they are protesting against :).


Title: Re: Occupy USA
Post by: FACman on 20 December 2011, 20:14:31
Quote
Often you see the same ( workless) people


It would seem that you nailed the problem here, people without work. There's an old saying from my childhood that applies...Idle hands are the Devil's workshop. Now some of them may be happy to be out of work, but most human beings would rather make an honest living, and I don't think you can say that a majority of the Occupy Movement are anything but everyday people looking for a fair shake. Here in America, there are upwards of 20 million people out of work, and the right wing is painting them as lazy people who don't want to work, a fact they cannot substantiate.
As for the agents provocateur, if they are good, you wouldn't be aware of them, like any recon unit, stealth is their modus operandi.


Title: Re: Occupy USA
Post by: Koen on 20 December 2011, 20:51:42
Quote
Often you see the same ( workless) people


It would seem that you nailed the problem here, people without work. There's an old saying from my childhood that applies...Idle hands are the Devil's workshop. Now some of them may be happy to be out of work, but most human beings would rather make an honest living, and I don't think you can say that a majority of the Occupy Movement are anything but everyday people looking for a fair shake. Here in America, there are upwards of 20 million people out of work, and the right wing is painting them as lazy people who don't want to work, a fact they cannot substantiate.
As for the agents provocateur, if they are good, you wouldn't be aware of them, like any recon unit, stealth is their modus operandi.

we talk about majorities and the majority of the population is dumb. politicians take profit of that fact. so they create 'groups' where they can put 'people' into.

'protesters'
'homeless'
'unemployed'

than they create slogans

'unemployed' people are 'lazy'
'homeless' people are a waste of time
'protesters' are... pick something... your choice

FacMan is/was also a victim... he's a 'vet' so he belongs to a group... so he's... what? what are the definitions of his group? 'dangerous'-'weapon addict'....?

this doesn't only applies to politicians... most people do this.... 'gay'-'police officer'-'factory guy'..... everybody gets put into a 'group'

well... I hate that... fight for your individuality!  :salute4:


Title: Re: Occupy USA
Post by: Rattler on 22 December 2011, 01:40:20
Quote
They shit on the pavewalks and between their tents, use drugs openly and dispose their garbage and drug waist like needles everywhere.



-snip- It is certainly an example of the short sightedness of the movement's leadership. Now they have given their opponents ammunition to use against them, though the actual extent of these problems remains unclear in my eyes. My govt made up lies and incidents to get us involved in the Vietnam War, then trumped up more stories to kick off the Iraq War, why wouldn't they do the same in this Class War? That is to say, I would not be surprised to find out some of the offenders were in fact govt agents placed to discredit the movement.-snip-


Here in Spain, where the whole movement started and then spread through Europe and the US we have definite data protected proof and on top also self-denounciations of government agent-provocateurs inflitrated to discredit the movement ("15M" here).

Here a few links, vids incluisive, use google translator where the pics dont speak by themselves:

First a video (sorry, 15 secs publicity to start it, subtitles in catalan), where you can clearly see how the pacific demonstrators suddenly get alterated by a group of violent actors, later those get isolated by the demonstraters themselves and turn out to be secret police in civil clothing. NOTE they started all the hassle and rioting, their earpieces gave them away (and, perfect discipline, the demonstrators did not even attack them or opt for revenge, just filmed them). THey keep them rounded up until uniformed police "liberate" them. All those 12 guys and gals have later been identified positively and are now called by the judge as witnesses for the trials agains the 6 detained for the "riots" (who face 9 yrs of prison). Who are the misfits?

http://www.20minutos.tv/video/abyFJOVY-quienes-eran-estos-indignados/ (http://www.20minutos.tv/video/abyFJOVY-quienes-eran-estos-indignados/)

More vids and proof of agent-provocateurs here:

http://canarioporelmundo.blogspot.com/2011/06/agentes-de-paisano-brigada-de.html (http://canarioporelmundo.blogspot.com/2011/06/agentes-de-paisano-brigada-de.html)

http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/espana/2011/06/10/0003_201106G10P18991.htm (http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/espana/2011/06/10/0003_201106G10P18991.htm)

http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/1084002/0/infiltracion/policias/parlament/ (http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/1084002/0/infiltracion/policias/parlament/)
As FacMan states so correctly, there are not more incidents than at any rock concert/soccer match at any day: Same number of misfits everywhere.

This has nothing to do with the reason for the movment and its reason for its existence, I myself have been part in the Palma manifestations and could not see any of the things you mentioned above. I saw the opposite: The demonstrators and occupiers organized(d) a brigade that took over the cleaning and maintenance of the public spaces, between tents and everywhere else. As far as I know this is the same system that has been employed in the other follow-ups over the world.

Dont let yourself be manipulated by a government that sides with the bankers and uses all tricks to discredit a perfetly legitime movment!

Maybe (and here I differ from FAcMans POV) the only problem the movement has is that there is no leadership, no organisation(s) behind it, which would explain why misfits at least have a chance to sneak in.

Rattler


Title: Re: Occupy USA
Post by: Rattler on 23 December 2011, 21:59:57
Re-reading I realize Stoffel was speaking about Amsterdam, this explains the discrepancy a bit, methinks: In Amsterdam Center, even at a normal day you find what he describes, so maybe its a local problem. A´dam is the only city where I routinely (!) got "visitors" in my van that I had set up right in front of the most luxury hotel as a photolab. Visitors that wanted to steal, to shit in the van or else. That´s Amsterdam, from my POV has nothing to do with the movment.

Rattler


Title: Re: Occupy USA
Post by: Rattler on 11 February 2012, 23:40:06
Now, this Marine, Sgt. Shamar Thomas, is the stuff that my heroes are made of, yessir!   at2   :salute:

Where´s the honor? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XthgjOms9jA#ws)

The good news you can see in the faces of the young cops, they can still appreciate food for thought, obviously...  Not all hope is lost. iconclap

Rattler


EDIT a bit later: Found an interview with him, again I can understand and share most he says, especially when he gets warmer with the situation towards the end:

Olbermann interviews marine veteran who shamed police - Sgt Shamar Thomas - Occupy Wall Street (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5_dZez-OTw#)


Title: Re: Occupy USA
Post by: Rattler on 13 February 2012, 22:47:11
And another twist I find interesting (as European anyway, unthinkable here with our arms monopoly on state), listen carefully to what this veteran says (after a few 30+ seconds), he is well on my line even if on the other side of the political spectrum: The constitution is the constitution is the constitution. Don´t like it? Change it!

But while it is there, we who have served once have vowed (each in their nation) to protect it, and I think this vow does not end with service term, right as this gentleman states.

That I have a lot respect for those guys shows how much the current political balances have swayed, nothing is the same as it was 25 years ago: Militias defending what we stood up for when young, I would not have believed it had someone told me 25 yrs ago, militias were "Eeek!" and fighting *against* the constitution...

Dont know whether this is bad or good, but it shows something is moving at least. The direction of this movement we will have to decide, with the (our) constitution(s) in hand, as we did when we went into the cold war to defend just the right of then (Neo)Nazis to publically state their will to abolish the constitution we defended.

Occupy Phoenix Veterans with AR 15s keeping the Occupation safe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkE3GnsLF0w#ws)

Rattler