NCO Club: Off Topic Discussions => The Aisles: Non-military News and Snippets => Topic started by: Mad Russian on 1 January 2009, 14:56:50



Title: Global Warming or New Ice Age?
Post by: Mad Russian on 1 January 2009, 14:56:50
You decide....

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/SC0811/S00028.htm (http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/SC0811/S00028.htm)

Good Hunting.

MR


Title: Re: Global Warming or New Ice Age?
Post by: bongotastic on 1 January 2009, 21:05:30
The article uses a lot of big words that sound scientific but at the same time uses lots of spiteful adjective to attack the IPCC report.

It is VERY hard to get information without a political agenda to distort the data (and this goes both ways).
 


Title: Re: Global Warming or New Ice Age?
Post by: Mad Russian on 2 January 2009, 04:11:42
The article uses a lot of big words that sound scientific but at the same time uses lots of spiteful adjective to attack the IPCC report.

It is VERY hard to get information without a political agenda to distort the data (and this goes both ways).
 


The IPCC seemed to have started that. Anyone who disagreed with global warming just wasn't all that smart. It's not smart to respond in kind.

Good Hunting.

MR


Title: Re: Global Warming or New Ice Age?
Post by: von Staudt on 9 January 2009, 18:19:05
Go watch this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4520665474899458831&q=great+global+warming+swindle&pr=goog-sl

Make up your own mind.

Personally, I think AGW is pure bunk!

(I hope this link works.  Our work system has it blocked, so I couldn't confirm it is what I think it is)   :(


Title: Re: Global Warming or New Ice Age?
Post by: Koen on 9 January 2009, 19:11:06
it doesn't work


Title: Re: Global Warming or New Ice Age?
Post by: von Staudt on 10 January 2009, 18:54:47
Sorry!   ::)

My work computer has YouTube blocked so I couldn't check it.

Try this one:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzSzItt6h-s

It is long, but worth watching.


Title: Re: Global Warming or New Ice Age?
Post by: Geordie on 18 January 2009, 01:09:12
I suppose if you were sitting on a great homely Island 12000 years ago and the Ice Age ended youd be seriously worried about global Warming, especially if your island started to disappear.

I suppose if you were a mammoth youd be pretty pissed off too.

So the Earths climate changes, been true for millions of years, have humans added to this, undoubtedly.  Is it hughely  significant in Earth terms, probably not.  We wouldnt be here is the global climate hadnt changed.  Millions of years ago small animals bi products polluted the atmosphere with oxygen.

The history of the planet shows that life goes on and that no animal lasts for ever, he only problem is that those animals didnt know it and we do.


Title: Re: Global Warming or New Ice Age?
Post by: Imp on 12 February 2009, 13:47:52
My sisters husband is a micro biologist & both he & his friends are very cynical of the whole thing.
There view is its all a con, a giant billion dollar industry but science badly needs money to develop replacements for resources as many not just oil are running short.
Greenhouse gases are an effect caused mainly by cloud creation as the world tries to block out the heat from that radiator in the sky we call the sun which has been very active of recent.
Note effect not cause but if they are wrong consider this & I can't remember exact figures because talked about a while back.

Man produces considerably less than 5% of them (think2-3%) so even if we cut them in half we might buy ourselves 6 months.
Oceans produce the most.
Grazing animals next - going vegan & killing all the cows would make a bigger diffrence than banning the car.
Forest fires etc man is well down the list

There are problems caused by man however the daming of low lands to stop flooding being one as the worlds eco system is an amazing thing.
World gets hot needs more clouds to protect it from the sun, ice melts water levels rise land should have flooded giving greater area for cloud formation.
There are other things we have done but their view is the eco system is an amazing machine & will rectify the problems by going into overtime. Hence big storms etc.
If the tundra melts then we might have a big problem as highly volatile gases are released into the air & burn on a truely massive scale.
Until recently it was generaly accepted that in medieval times the world was a lot hotter though since global warming this has been challenged.
Come from England so if you want a none scientific rational for temperature change take London.
At the turn of the century ice fairs were held on the Thames. It froze over hard enough to allow horse & cart & the building of stalls on the river so it was colder. Early photographs prove this.
To go back further only documents exist to collabarate but the likes of Vine Street etc were called that because the area was a vineyard. In other words London had the climate of France & France was warmer to.
The eco system tries to maintain a balance & does a very good job it gets hot then heads towards cold then back to hot again as it reacts but all the time gets generally slightly warmer as we are still coming out of an ice age. When its had enough it will turn around & head back to another ice age
None of this is anywhere near life threatening though species will die, its called evolution.

As a last point battery or hydrogen cars are a nonsense as unless the power used is nuclear you have just moved the source. Batteries are in fact incredibly harmful as the stuff they are made of is hard to extract & the areas around where it is mined are uninhabbitable (think post nuclear)
Over 15 years ago mercedes Benz made a steam car, think supercar 200mph 4sec 0-60mph but it takes 2 minutes to build pressure before driving off.
Emmisions err steam runs on water but no one wanted to set up water stations because there is no money in it.
To be totaly correct it did use a 50cc petrol engine to start it but modern tech could replace this & probably get the waiting time down.
The thing is though like I said at the start most resources are running out science needs a huge cash injection to find replacements & times of crisis is when science leaps forward just look at the speed of advances made during wars vs peacetime


Title: Re: Global Warming or New Ice Age?
Post by: bongotastic on 12 February 2009, 18:50:15
The whole debate is unfortunately polarized between hysteria and denial. And unfortunately these views are bundled with a lot of other political baggage, which makes it difficult to discuss with cool.

That the climate changes is a fact. How much is really due to human activity is harder to tell. I don't know for myself and in a way, don't really care.

What I care about is that our economy of growth based on the exploitation of one shot resources. That it takes a cataclysm (whether real or not) for people to consider this fact is just sad. I dislike greenwashing as much as the other guy, but it doesn't make sense to buy electricity from a plant if I can generate it with panels on my roof (and sell the excess back to the grid). I don't have panels on my house because I've got no money to do that right now: but the $2000 spent there is more of a long-term solution than stuffing the same amount to mine for "new" coal. Another reason is that the next hurricane would rip the solar panels right off  >:(

Whether you buy into the environmental argument or not doesn't change the fact that there is a serious economic issue to deal with. And this is a "man-made" problem.


Title: Re: Global Warming or New Ice Age?
Post by: Rattler on 12 February 2009, 20:06:58
The whole debate is unfortunately polarized between hysteria and denial. And unfortunately these views are bundled with a lot of other political baggage, which makes it difficult to discuss with cool.
-snip-


Concur.

Uninformed ppl are held hostage by powerful PR grinders (on both sides)

Rattler


Title: Re: Global Warming or New Ice Age?
Post by: Rattler on 12 February 2009, 20:13:12
-snip-
Over 15 years ago mercedes Benz made a steam car, think supercar 200mph 4sec 0-60mph but it takes 2 minutes to build pressure before driving off.
Emmisions err steam runs on water but no one wanted to set up water stations because there is no money in it.
To be totaly correct it did use a 50cc petrol engine to start it but modern tech could replace this & probably get the waiting time down.
-snip-



Imp,

I sure hope you have your other "facts" down better, sloppy use of facts in parts of posts disqulifies whole posts sometimes:

- No steam car by Mercedes (that I know of or have heard of as German) within the last 70 yrs (last try 1935, convince me it isnt so!?)

- Steam wheeled vehicle speed record is from 1906 (to be broken 2009 by some brits that aim for 174 mph) 127 mph (200 and a bit km/h)

http://www.diariomotor.com/2008/12/14/steam-car-a-por-el-record-de-velocidad-de-vehiculos-a-vapor/ (http://www.diariomotor.com/2008/12/14/steam-car-a-por-el-record-de-velocidad-de-vehiculos-a-vapor/)

Rattler