NCO Club: Off Topic Discussions => The Aisles: Non-military News and Snippets => Topic started by: Koen on 7 July 2009, 14:51:35



Title: Formula One boss expresses admiration for Hitler
Post by: Koen on 7 July 2009, 14:51:35
http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/07/05/formula-one/ (http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/07/05/formula-one/)

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76713 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76713)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/jul/04/bernie-ecclestone-interview-hitler-saddam (http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/jul/04/bernie-ecclestone-interview-hitler-saddam)

strange man that Bernie...are these opinions that a media figure should express publicily?

Quote
LONDON: Formula One commercial rights holder, Bernie Ecclestone, on Saturday stoked up controversy by praising Adolf Hitler for being a man who “was able to get things done“.

In an interview with The Times newspaper, Ecclestone praised strong leadership and said that he preferred totalitarian regimes to democracies.

Ecclestone said: “In a lot of ways, terrible to say this I suppose, but apart from the fact that Hitler got taken away and persuaded to do things that I have no idea whether he wanted to do or not, he was in the way that he could command a lot of people, able to get things done.

“In the end he got lost, so he wasn’t a very good dictator because either he had all these things and knew what was going on and insisted, or he just went along with it … so either way he wasn’t a dictator.”

Saying he liked “strong leaders” like Margaret Thatcher, Ecclestone suggested that FIA president Max Mosley would make a good Prime Minister.

“I don’t think his background would be a problem,” said Ecclestone of Mosley, the son of Sir Oswald Mosley, leader of the British Union of Fascists.

He added: “I prefer strong leaders. Margaret Thatcher made decisions on the run and got the job done. She was the one who built this country up slowly. We’ve let it go down again. All these guys, Gordon (Brown) and Tony (Blair) are trying to please everybody all the time … Max would do a super job, he’s a good leader.”

“Politicians are too worried about elections. We did a terrible thing when we supported the idea of getting rid of Saddam Hussein, he was the only one who could control the country. It was the same (with the Taliban.),” added Ecclestone, who in 1997 donated 1million pounds to the Labour Government

A spokesman for the board of Deputies of British Jews said: “Mr Ecclestone’s comments regarding Hitler, female, black and Jewish racing drivers are quite bizarre. He says ‘Politics are not for me’ and we are inclined to agree.”

Ecclestone previously stirred controversy when he suggested in 2008 that racist comments on a website about British driver Lewis Hamilton had “started as just a joke”.



Title: Re: Formula One boss expresses admiration for Hitler
Post by: Tanker on 10 July 2009, 16:21:32
Idiots everywhere I suppose.


Title: Re: Formula One boss expresses admiration for Hitler
Post by: the_13th_redneck on 25 September 2009, 03:02:20
Hitler was a horrible guy but I don't understand the singling out of Hitler and those who praise Hitler.
There are people who praise and wear T-shirts of Stalin who you could argue was worse and what's the reaction?  "He's a different thinker."  Pfft.  Please.  And Che Guevara as well.  Had he not died and you given him a bit more time, who knows what he could have done?  But there are Che Guevara T-shirts everywhere.  Genghis Kahn's Mongolian hoards killed off people in the hundreds of thousands practically for fun.
No genocide should ever be ignored or forgotten and the Holocaust was not the first and certainly won't be the last example of genocide.
Those who praise Stalin, Che and Mao should be held at the same level as those who praise Hitler.
Or those who praise Hitler should be as forgiven and understood as those who praise Stalin, Che, Mao etc.


Title: Re: Formula One boss expresses admiration for Hitler
Post by: Rattler on 25 September 2009, 06:06:39
There is a fundametal qualitative difference between Hitler´s and other dictator´s deeds and also between the the Holocaust and other genocides: The *systematic, industrialized and economically optimized* genocide that was the Holocaust has never before or afterwards been seen on this planet und was the ultimate perversion humankind could come up with.

Don´t forget that the Nazi leaders and beaurocracy actually set down together in Wansee because they found it to be too expenisve and logistically challenging to spend ammunition and manpower that were needed elswhere on the "Final Solution" and deemed killing by shots too slow a process for the masses of people they had to kill.

So they came (after various tests) up with the gassing system as way cheaper and faster and solving the problem how to leave the corpses in a state where they could be made of economical use: Gold teeth, hair and fat for soap could only be retrieved rarely from shot victims, for the estimated need to kill 40 million people within a time frame of 5 years the bullets wer considered impossible as they deemed it necessary to keep up a kill rate of average 3000 per day. Just the manpower to achieve this rate was impossible to permanently allocate for such a time frame.

Hence, putting Hitler on the same shelf as the Khan, Stalin, the Chinese or Serbs or whoever other dictators or genociders devaluates this grade of perversion, Hitler was unique.

FWIW,

Rattler


Title: Re: Formula One boss expresses admiration for Hitler
Post by: the_13th_redneck on 25 September 2009, 07:24:48
It's just mass murder meets industrial might.
Personally between getting gassed to death and getting hacked to pieces by a sword/machette, I elect getting gassed to death.
The Chinese use the organs of the executed and send them to hospitals.  If they had that sort of tech back in the old days, I don't doubt for a second they would have lined up dissent groups and had their organs harvested.
I'd elaborate but I have to go.
Might be gone a few days actually.


Title: Re: Formula One boss expresses admiration for Hitler
Post by: stoffel on 25 September 2009, 08:19:58
Rattler,

I can give you an example of that as well, in the 17th century my country was a worldpower.
Dutch companies like the VOC killed many people, backed up by army and navy.

they thought out a system for picking, buying and selling slaves from Africa.
Entire shiploads were sometimes  dropped in the ocean, or even  sunk with a ship to collect insurance money.
Millions of slaves died during 200 years of slavery.
My ancestors thought out the whole system for it.


Title: Re: Formula One boss expresses admiration for Hitler
Post by: Rattler on 25 September 2009, 08:46:11
Stoffel, I know.

The same with what Spain did in the Southern Americas, or the Brits in Africa.

I was only commenting 13th_redneck´s statement as to why Hitler IMO should be referred to differently than the others and why he is singled out generally:

Hitler was a horrible guy but I don't understand the singling out of Hitler and those who praise Hitler. -snip-

Rattler


Title: Re: Formula One boss expresses admiration for Hitler
Post by: Koen on 25 September 2009, 08:53:41
same goes for the negationisten (dunno if this is the correct English spelling) who say that it all didn't happen... :reddevil:

luckily we have a law now which can help the government sending those Sholes to jail  smallclap


Title: Re: Formula One boss expresses admiration for Hitler
Post by: Rattler on 25 September 2009, 12:51:08
-snip- I'd elaborate but I have to go.
Might be gone a few days actually.

Whatever you up to down there in those mutineers islands: Godspeed!

Rattler


Title: Re: Formula One boss expresses admiration for Hitler
Post by: the_13th_redneck on 4 October 2009, 14:03:14
The Machette genocide in Rwanda was also planned and executed as well.  It wasn't some kind of spontaneous massive hack-fest.  It was designed and they even imported machettes from China to make sure there were enough machettes to go around.  Cheaper than guns, and ammunition would not be an issue either.  Much cheaper and practical than gas for them as well.
The Japanese also conducted medical experiments and weapons tests on live prisoners, mostly from Korea during the occupation (1910-1945).  They'd cut up live people and try all sorts of medical experiments, line folks up and fire a rifle to test a bullet's penetration properties.  Also they kidnapped countless women in occupied territories to use as prostitutes for their military as well.  But Tojo doesn't quite have the ring of Hitler does it?
The North Vietnamese did some cleansing of their own of the Hmongs.
Cambodia was another example.  They drove people into camps and started executing people who wore glasses, who had soft hands... of course these were also designed and came from their top leadership.  Not only that, they killed anywhere between 1 to 2 million people in a country of around 6 million.
So Nazi Germans met in offices and held board meetings about how to most efficiently kill off Jews.  It's not that different.


Title: Re: Formula One boss expresses admiration for Hitler
Post by: Mad Russian on 20 October 2009, 13:48:31
There is a fundametal qualitative difference between Hitler´s and other dictator´s deeds and also between the the Holocaust and other genocides: The *systematic, industrialized and economically optimized* genocide that was the Holocaust has never before or afterwards been seen on this planet und was the ultimate perversion humankind could come up with.


That's not entirely correct. The_13th_Redneck has it closer to the truth than people want to believe.

Stalin was in all rights equal to or worse than Hitler. Killed more people, attacked all his neighbors...etc...and if we are going to play the what if game we can go down the road of what if Germany hadn't attacked the Soviet Union? Stalin is credited with killing 20 million of his own people, WWII counting all deaths was around 55 million.

Dictators like Mao we don't even have an accurate accounting of. China had 2.5 million killed during the revolution and after that Mao is credited with as many as 40 million more.

So, no Hitler doesn't stand head and shoulders above some of these other men. His big claim to fame is killing other nations people and not just his own like Stalin and Mao.

Quote
Don´t forget that the Nazi leaders and beaurocracy actually set down together in Wansee because they found it to be too expenisve and logistically challenging to spend ammunition and manpower that were needed elswhere on the "Final Solution" and deemed killing by shots too slow a process for the masses of people they had to kill.


Stalin and Mao use economical means as well. They used the cheap solution of starving their own citizens to death. But they weren't adverse to shooting them or beating them to death as well.

Quote
So they came (after various tests) up with the gassing system as way cheaper and faster and solving the problem how to leave the corpses in a state where they could be made of economical use: Gold teeth, hair and fat for soap could only be retrieved rarely from shot victims, for the estimated need to kill 40 million people within a time frame of 5 years the bullets wer considered impossible as they deemed it necessary to keep up a kill rate of average 3000 per day. Just the manpower to achieve this rate was impossible to permanently allocate for such a time frame.


All this is true and Hitler deserves his place as one of the worst tyrants in history. What he doesn't deserve is to be up there all by himself.

More and more information is coming out of the Soviet archives. More books are being written about Soviet involvement in the opening part of WWII. Don't forget that until Germany invaded the Soviet Union they were partners.

Stalin once commented that the only man he admired was Hitler.

Quote
Hence, putting Hitler on the same shelf as the Khan, Stalin, the Chinese or Serbs or whoever other dictators or genociders devaluates this grade of perversion, Hitler was unique.

FWIW,

Rattler


They all came up with unique methods. Just because you may find one method of genocide directed at one group of people as more abhorrent doesn't mean that the rest of them don't belong on that shelf as well.

None of them were anything but deranged psychopaths. Some just had that power to wield over more human beings than others is all.

Good Hunting.

MR


Title: Re: Formula One boss expresses admiration for Hitler
Post by: the_13th_redneck on 28 October 2009, 17:57:52


All this is true and Hitler deserves his place as one of the worst tyrants in history. What he doesn't deserve is to be up there all by himself.



This is precisely what I mean.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who gets it.