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Author Topic: Belgian Crisis  (Read 7420 times)
Koen
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« on: 19 December 2008, 12:29:52 »
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For the last 2 years Belgium has its own political crisis next to the newly born financial and economic crisis.

In the last election 1 party won with a big difference but this was a Flemish-Nothern party. The prime minister was, logically, also Flemish and from the Noth.
They started forming a government but this went on for months...it became a terrible display of eacht wanting their own rights and priviliges....finally they formed a government, due to the rising shame...but what sort of government...we had numerous examples on how NOT to do things

google link

But Belgium is divided in 2 parts, north and south, dutch and french speaking. Both parts have their own government with 1 government nationwide.

Next to this there are 2 governments, 1 for Brussels and 1 for the German speaking part at our Eastern border with Germany.

Every single government has it's own rights and obligations.

So now you have a flemish prime minister who has to lead the national government and start to reform the rights of every single government in Belgium.

Since long there have been discussions, crashes, arguements on the future of Belgium.

Do we divide it in 2 parts? North(Flanders) and South(Wallonia)? If yes, what do we do with Brussels and the german speaking part?
Do we link Flanders to Holland (back in time....) and Wallonia to France? But what with Brussels then?

How do we divide? Totally break up all links? Economically and financial?

No progress has been made at all...politically....economically....international....

Recently with the economic crisis it went wrong again....banks were invested with government money which gives the people from the street a bad taste in their mouth...

The biggest bank in Belgium, Holland and Luxembourg 'Fortis' has been divided into 3 parts, Belgian-Dutch-Luxemburgs.
And now the government decided to sell our part to the French 'PNB Paribas'.
But...without the approval of the thousands of share-holders who, after their shares went down as hell, now weren't even contacted.

So, they started a trial against our own government against the sell of 'Fortis'

First the judges rules in favour of the government so 'yes for selling'
I higher court the judges overruled and said 'no to selling'

So it went towards the highest court....but before they came with their final result.....

their were talks about a link between one of the judges and the leading political party.....ouch....

the female judge talked about the trial to her husband who's linked to the party....and to make it worse she refused to vote and called in sick....

and now we're in very disturbing times 'cause it seems that the prime minister knew about the talks between the husband and the prime minister's party...

and the 'no political influence in the justice department' rule is one of Belgium's important rules of democracy

so what now?

fire the prime minister! ok, but then the party will go and when the party goes the government is gone...

so...no solution has been solved in the last 2 years, only more problems were created and in the middle of the biggest crisis worldwide we've created our own political clusterf**k

super...in the last months thousands of people lost their jobs in the steel and car manufacturing sector and now this....

congratulations to all those well-paid politicians who haven't achieved anything.... Bedroefd

Koen
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Koen
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« Reply #1 on: 19 December 2008, 18:15:46 »
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well...update...

1 minister has gone....

****************************

latest news...

the prime minister will offer the dismissal of the government to the King

***************************

there were new elections next year so what now....a temporary government? who will be in it?

 :'(
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Koen
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« Reply #2 on: 19 December 2008, 21:45:07 »
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English info:

Link

Link

Link
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FACman
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« Reply #3 on: 20 December 2008, 04:04:18 »
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Not to minimize your countries plight, but keep up the hope, as here in the US, all things change. The evolution of the people of the world is ongoing, with many a pitfall in our path. just keep your head up, and your eyes on the little we can each do in our sphere to make things better. One day, our children's children, will benefit from our trials & hard works. Sometimes, we must relearn, at great expense, lessons thought to have already been learned (vietnam/iraq), to move ahead. Heck, we still persecute witches in the world, fortunately the frequency is dropping... Evolution is a slow process, in which we rarely see the depth of the changes we contribute to.

*climbs off soapbox*

2c from the peanut gallery
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von Staudt
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« Reply #4 on: 10 January 2009, 20:12:41 »
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Koen,

Wow!  I thought our politics were complicated!     Tong

Does everyone vote in one big election, or is that split up by regions too?

Thank God, as Facit alluded to, Hope and Change are on the way.  Only 10 days and all will be well with the world!  (Snark  Smiley  )
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« Reply #5 on: 10 January 2009, 21:56:02 »
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Koen,

Wow!  I thought our politics were complicated!     Tong

Does everyone vote in one big election, or is that split up by regions too?

Thank God, as Facit alluded to, Hope and Change are on the way.  Only 10 days and all will be well with the world!  (Snark  Smiley  )


Well you can dream, can't you?  What are you going to do when you find out Obama is not the second coming of the Messiah and definitely won't solve all the world's problems?
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Koen
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« Reply #6 on: 11 January 2009, 13:52:03 »
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for now there's been a chairdance (Dutch word for changing places).

prime minister is gone

new prime minister, new minister of justice, new minister of internal affairs

changing places in the congress etc etc......

new government should remain in place until 2011

flemish elections in 2009
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« Reply #7 on: 11 January 2009, 17:22:33 »
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Tanker sez:
Quote
What are you going to do when you find out Obama is not the second coming of the Messiah and definitely won't solve all the world's problems?



Could you please provide me with a source for this 2nd coming concept (other than from those who would make this Straw Man  Argument in support of the bankrupt Republican agenda), as it has been my experience, neither PE Obama or anyone connected with his campaign portrayed him as such. I may have missed it during the campaign, and would like to have my facts ready, should I choose to use your argument one day, regarding his failures as the Messiah returned.

I personally did not vote for him, thinking he could solve any of the worlds problems, but my hope is (It is my belief, that  hope is not a derogatory concept), that he will lead the country, more effectively , than the last 4 rubes elected to the post.

If in fact,  your question was sarcasticly rhetorical, your implication that those who voted for him, believe him to be divine in nature, insults our intelligence and is an attempt to belittle our decision making process. Yes, the politics of division...it is also my hope to see this practice thrown on the pyre of of Republican failures.

At your service,

J
« Last Edit: 11 January 2009, 17:35:15 by Koen » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: 11 January 2009, 20:32:35 »
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Could you please provide me with a source for this 2nd coming concept (other than from those who would make this Straw Man  Argument in support of the bankrupt Republican agenda), as it has been my experience, neither PE Obama or anyone connected with his campaign portrayed him as such. I may have missed it during the campaign, and would like to have my facts ready, should I choose to use your argument one day, regarding his failures as the Messiah returned.-snip-

At your service,
J


Wasnt mentioned explicitly at all, IMHO, but is imminent in those times: As we say in German: "In the world of blind people, the one eyed is king", so, after Bush, anything is possible from the European POV (we have been suffreing from the cr@ap we saw over there through the last 6 yrs ..."US has done all to perfection to shoot itself through the foot in the chest"... as one commentary mentioned).

In times of dispair, (crisis, crisis, crisis, etc.) and when the one (for us 50+ oldies) leading nation of the world had lost it´s inspirational powers (what do you think I/others of my generation went to the army for?) having someone "different" (at least this is what people hope, though personally, I think they are belittering themselves, Obama will be *American* first) taking reign feeds such perspectives: "Now, everything will change (back to "normal")". That is my impression talking to the street, here (in Spain), and it reflects 1:1 what I hear from Germany.

I think Koen et al - unconsciously -  voiced such attire.

BTW, I like your closing, at your service as well.

Rattler
« Last Edit: 11 January 2009, 20:40:10 by Rattler » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: 15 January 2009, 23:55:41 »
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Koen,

Wow!  I thought our politics were complicated!     Tong

Does everyone vote in one big election, or is that split up by regions too?

Thank God, as Facit alluded to, Hope and Change are on the way.  Only 10 days and all will be well with the world!  (Snark  Smiley  )


Well you can dream, can't you?  What are you going to do when you find out Obama is not the second coming of the Messiah and definitely won't solve all the world's problems?


I was being sarcastic.   Grijns  The disenchantment is already starting.  We won't be leaving Iraq or Afganistan anytime soon, Bush won't be charged with war crimes, and most of his appointments to cabinet posts used to work for Clinton and Bush!  The left is fit to be tied!  I love it!   Brede lach
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Koen
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« Reply #10 on: 16 January 2009, 00:17:15 »
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we vote twice...once for a local government [Flemish, Walloon or German] and once for the national government.

funny note: a couple of years ago my main reason to vote for someone were her long legs, tall body, youthness and a big smile  Brede lach



at the end most things remain the same....

my very personal opinion about the "Bush-USA": Obama will be a relief...not only to the US but also to Europe and the rest of the world....

ofcourse he has debts to pay... he will have alot of people to please that supported him but frankly....who could do worse then Bush?

The USA always had some kind of a, well deserved, 'hero' status in Europe due to several facts and certainly WWII but since Bush and his wars all over the place and the freezing of all peacetalks at the same speed the public opinion has changed....the USA deserves better...the Americans deserve better!

We need a different USA, the whole world needs it...
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Mad Russian
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« Reply #11 on: 16 January 2009, 01:09:12 »
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...  but frankly....who could do worse then Bush?


In most Americans minds Obama is only the lesser of two evils. It' wasn't so much that people voted for him as they voted against McCain. Most people I talk to didn't want either of them. I felt the same way.

Quote
The USA always had some kind of a, well deserved, 'hero' status in Europe due to several facts and certainly WWII


Hero status? We only came into the war after we were attacked. We weren't heroes, just victims of the Axis like everybody else. We were just in a position where they couldn't reach our industry that allowed us to build up our military while supporting others that were fighting on their own soil.


Quote
but since Bush and his wars all over the place and the freezing of all peacetalks at the same speed the public opinion has changed....the USA deserves better...the Americans deserve better!

We need a different USA, the whole world needs it...



Bush and his wars all over the place? I remember 9-11. I was home that day when my wife called me in to watch what was happening. I don't clearly recall seeing Bush and his wars all over the place. What I watched was a plan by a man President Clinton decided not to do anything about. Not to capture him when they had the opportunity. To only fire warning missiles at training camps.

How did that become Bush's wars all over the place? There are decades of failed American foreign policy stacked up in front of 9-11. Bush was just the President the day it all happened.

The US has a history of being non-aggressive. Unless we are attacked. Then you have awakened the sleeping giant. It's about the only way to piss us off enough that we go to war......but it can be done.

Good Hunting.

MR
« Last Edit: 16 January 2009, 01:12:39 by Mad Russian » Logged
Tanker
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« Reply #12 on: 16 January 2009, 06:24:57 »
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Koen,

Wow!  I thought our politics were complicated!     Tong

Does everyone vote in one big election, or is that split up by regions too?

Thank God, as Facit alluded to, Hope and Change are on the way.  Only 10 days and all will be well with the world!  (Snark  Smiley  )


Well you can dream, can't you?  What are you going to do when you find out Obama is not the second coming of the Messiah and definitely won't solve all the world's problems?


I was being sarcastic.   Grijns  The disenchantment is already starting.  We won't be leaving Iraq or Afganistan anytime soon, Bush won't be charged with war crimes, and most of his appointments to cabinet posts used to work for Clinton and Bush!  The left is fit to be tied!  I love it!   Brede lach


I'm relieved to hear that you weren't serious.  I thought I was going to have to buy you a "Obama is my co-pilot" T-shirt.
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Koen
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« Reply #13 on: 16 January 2009, 10:59:40 »
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Hero status? We only came into the war after we were attacked. We weren't heroes, just victims of the Axis like everybody else. We were just in a position where they couldn't reach our industry that allowed us to build up our military while supporting others that were fighting on their own soil.


I'm not only talking about WWII but also in the years after, the Cold War etc...

For the people in Western-Europe the presence of American soldiers from 1945 'till the end of the Cold War was highly appreciated.

Quote
How did that become Bush's wars all over the place? There are decades of failed American foreign policy stacked up in front of 9-11. Bush was just the President the day it all happened.


I do realise that it's easier to talk about then acting. I got the impression that when Bush arrived the peacetalks stopped and the soldiers were send around the globe.
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« Reply #14 on: 16 January 2009, 23:12:33 »
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we vote twice...once for a local government [Flemish, Walloon or German] and once for the national government.

funny note: a couple of years ago my main reason to vote for someone were her long legs, tall body, youthness and a big smile  Brede lach



I'd vote for her!   Grijns
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« Reply #15 on: 16 January 2009, 23:34:24 »
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Tanker,

Do you get the impression that Facit is tilting his head and looking down his nose at us??   Rollende ogen  I love it when lefties do that!   Grijns

Hey Facit, take a chill pill dude!  Your guy won, so you can ralax now.   Brede lach

As you probably ascertained, I didn't vote for Obamassiah, but he was elected, and he is my president.  If he fails, we all fail.  Unlike the far left who was so willing to do everything in its power to make W fail, no matter the consequences to the country, I will support him when I think he is right, and oppose him when, IMO, he is not right.  I think the term is "the loyal opposition".

Obama doesn't scare me nearly as much as that pack of loonies in the House and Senate!   Kwaad  From BOTH parties, I might add, not just the Democrats.  For God's sake, they elected (sorta) Al Franken as senator of Minnesota!  Tong

Did you notice that the Jihadis are already setting his picture on fire.  Get used to it.  So much for Hope & Change.   Onbeslist
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« Reply #16 on: 16 January 2009, 23:43:39 »
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we just got a pamphlet in the mail about the up-coming election for next month here in Seattle.  we're going to choose a new Director of Elections.  we have elections at least once every year--some county-wide, some State-wide and some for national elected offices.  Too many in my mind, it's hard to know much about how to vote for a local judge, say, and by the time it's time to choose a President it's past the time for me in Seattle to have much of an impact on what my choices are.

re. Bush leaving office: I was born during the Johnson administration.  He and Carter are much worse than Bush, to me.  Ford, is probably worse and Bush 1 and Nixon are arguably worse.  Bush is far from the worst President in my lifetime, let alone ever, as some claim. (my view, of course, but I am capable of rationally debating any aspects if you wish  Knipoog)

re. Obama as The Chosen One:  Oprah Winfrey of all people asked "is he the one?" [well, I'd put 'the' and 'one' in capital letters. . . ]

Not that I watch Oprah, or anything!  Ik zeg niets
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Mad Russian
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« Reply #17 on: 17 January 2009, 00:24:22 »
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Not that I watch Oprah, or anything!  Ik zeg niets


Depends on which parts of Oprah you're watching.....some parts are worth watching I think..... Knipoog

My vote for worst President is Jimmie Carter. He gave amnesty to those that left the country rather than serve in the military when the country called them. That's fine. You made that choice and I'm good with it. I'm not good with all of them coming home after skipping their duty, while others did theirs then coming back.

No Jimmie, you were NOT A GOOD PRESIDENT.....

Good Hunting.

MR
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« Reply #18 on: 17 January 2009, 00:56:34 »
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Not that I watch Oprah, or anything!  Ik zeg niets


Depends on which parts of Oprah you're watching.....some parts are worth watching I think..... Knipoog

My vote for worst President is Jimmie Carter. He gave amnesty to those that left the country rather than serve in the military when the country called them. That's fine. You made that choice and I'm good with it. I'm not good with all of them coming home after skipping their duty, while others did theirs then coming back.

No Jimmie, you were NOT A GOOD PRESIDENT.....

Good Hunting.

MR


And he's turned quite loony as an elder statesman too.
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« Reply #19 on: 17 January 2009, 00:58:13 »
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we vote twice...once for a local government [Flemish, Walloon or German] and once for the national government.

funny note: a couple of years ago my main reason to vote for someone were her long legs, tall body, youthness and a big smile  Brede lach



I'd vote for her!   Grijns


I'd hit that. Smiley
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