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Author Topic: Books: Panther Pz V 'Panther'  (Read 30283 times)
Koen
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« on: 16 January 2011, 12:36:07 »
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I'm planning to buy some stuff about the Panthers

what do you guys recommend?

on amazon.co.uk I find these:

Germany's Panther Tank: The Quest for Combat Supremacy, Development Modifications, Rare Variants, Characteristics, Combat Accounts (Schiffer Military/Aviation History) - Thomas L. Jentz; Hardcover £39.95
Der Panzer V Panther und seine Abarten - Walter J. Spielberger; Hardcover £15.46
Panther vs Sherman: Battle of the Bulge 1944 (Duel) - Steven J Zaloga; Paperback £11.69
Lorraine, 1944: Patton Versus Manteuffel (Osprey Military Campaign) - Steven J. Zaloga; Paperback £12.59
Panther Variants, 1943-45 (Osprey New Vanguard) - Hilary L. Doyle £7.99
Panzer Divisions 1944-45 (Battle Orders) - Pier Paolo Battistelli £11.89

updated 16/1/11 16:51 local time
« Last Edit: 16 January 2011, 17:53:24 by Koen » Logged
stoffel
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« Reply #1 on: 16 January 2011, 15:12:47 »
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I have Spielberger,
Spielbergers books deal with the evolution, technical aspects and the weapons.
Has many charts and facts.
Not much about actual combat though.
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« Reply #2 on: 16 January 2011, 15:38:31 »
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I have Spielberger,
Spielbergers books deal with the evolution, technical aspects and the weapons.
Has many charts and facts.
Not much about actual combat though.


what Spielberger book?
« Last Edit: 16 January 2011, 16:16:19 by Koen » Logged
stoffel
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« Reply #3 on: 16 January 2011, 18:27:10 »
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I have Spielbergers Tiger, Panther and MKIV variants.
Maybe I will buy the halftrack version too.
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« Reply #4 on: 17 January 2011, 14:21:54 »
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I have Spielbergers Tiger, Panther and MKIV variants.
Maybe I will buy the halftrack version too.



still don't know what books you're referring too
plz give me amazon links and/or ISBN numbers

ps: I got several Panther videos on my HD, will put them on our YouTube channel soon... Panthers GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO  hihi
« Last Edit: 17 January 2011, 19:32:10 by Koen » Logged
stoffel
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« Reply #5 on: 17 January 2011, 19:34:09 »
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Walter J Spielberger, Motorbuch verlag.
Panzerkampfwagen Tiger und seine abarten. 3-87943-356-5
Panzerkanpfwagen panther und seine abarten 3-87943-527-8
Panzer IV and its variants 0-88740-515-0
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« Reply #6 on: 17 January 2011, 19:36:32 »
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Walter J Spielberger, Motorbuch verlag.
Panzerkampfwagen Tiger und seine abarten. 3-87943-356-5
Panzerkanpfwagen panther und seine abarten 3-87943-527-8
Panzer IV and its variants 0-88740-515-0



focusing on Panther there's only 1 book and it is on my list, correct?
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« Reply #7 on: 17 January 2011, 20:27:31 »
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yes...Knipoog
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Earl Grey
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« Reply #8 on: 19 January 2011, 23:42:18 »
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Question: What do you want from your Panther books? If you got Jentz and Spielberger you need none from Osprey - those are for people completely unfamiliar with the topic. If you only want general, non-technical information, you're better off without Spielberger.
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« Reply #9 on: 20 January 2011, 14:22:08 »
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Question: What do you want from your Panther books? If you got Jentz and Spielberger you need none from Osprey - those are for people completely unfamiliar with the topic. If you only want general, non-technical information, you're better off without Spielberger.


100% correct (  hihi ) info on different types, fabrication numbers and locations of actio, also what units used them, where and how
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« Reply #10 on: 20 January 2011, 20:09:49 »
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100% correct (  hihi ) info on different types, fabrication numbers and locations of actio, also what units used them, where and how



Well... Spare yourself Osprey then. All the information can be found in Jentz#s book (who was the author of the Opsrey titles anyway). Another book you might want to take a look at is this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panther-Detail-Uwe-Feist/dp/1930571259 - older and not necessarily better, but still useful and interesting.

Regarding fabrication numbers, locations etc. I recommend a WEBSITE: http://www.panther1944.de/ - all the information you could ever want, some of it in no book you can buy at the moment. For units that used it you'll have to buy dozens of individual unit histories; two books I can recommend are the following:
- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Westwall-halten-oder-untergehen-Panzerbrigade/dp/3935107099/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1295546424&sr=1-5 - very interesting book about one of the independent tank brigades that were formed in late 1944.
- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Duel-Mist-Kampfgruppe-Leibstandarte-Bluejacket/dp/0955541301/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1295546772&sr=1-1 - first part of a trilogy centering on LAH's Panthers. The seconf volume might appear later this year (hopefully).

I also got lots of more "technical" books in my collection but those are more interesting for modellers and modders (containing lots of bluerpints and detail drawings of vehicle components) and a few booklets with nice color profiles but rather inaccurate information.
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« Reply #11 on: 20 January 2011, 21:12:20 »
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so, I should go for:

General Info

Panther in Detail - Uwe Feist - Hardcover - £35.69 - http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1930571259/

Der Panzer V Panther und seine Abarten - Walter J. Spielberger; Hardcover - £15.46 - http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/3613031655

Germany's Panther Tank: The Quest for Combat Supremacy, Development Modifications, Rare Variants, Characteristics, Combat Accounts (Schiffer Military/Aviation History) - Thomas L. Jentz; Hardcover - £39.95 - http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0887408125/

Heavy Jagdpanzer: Development - Production - Operations - Walter J. Spielberger; Hardcover - £37.95 - http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0764326252/

Action

Duel in the Mist: Kampfgruppe Peiper, Stoumont, December 19th, 1944 v. 1: The Leibstandarte During the Ardennes Offensive (Bluejacket Books) [Hardcover] - £38.50 - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Duel-Mist-Kampfgruppe-Leibstandarte-Bluejacket/dp/0955541301/

Lorraine, 1944: Patton Versus Manteuffel (Osprey Military Campaign) - Steven J. Zaloga; Paperback - £12.59 - http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1841760897/ (Panther-Sherman fights)

Den Westwall halten oder mit dem Westwall untergehen: Die Geschichte der Panzerbrigade 105 [Hardcover] - not available - 3935107099

Combat History of the 654th Schwere Panzerjager Abteilung [Gebundene Ausgabe] - not available - 0921991606 - seems that amazon.com (US) is the cheapest option (and on the few options....)

***************************************************************************************************

what about following books? do you know them?

Special Panzer Variants: Development - Production - Operations (The Spielberger German Armor and Military Vehicle Series) [Hardcover] - 0764326228 UPDATE

Jagdpanther: Technology, Units and Operations (Tech / Germany) [Hardcover] - Martin Mansoon and Andreas Leandoer - 9197589578 UPDATE

Panther vs Sherman: Battle of the Bulge 1944 (Duel) - Steven J Zaloga; Paperback - £11.69 - http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/184603292X/

Panzer Divisions 1944-45 (Battle Orders) - Pier Paolo Battistelli - £11.89 - http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/184603406X/ (for the Lorraine/Arracourt battles)
« Last Edit: 22 January 2011, 21:01:30 by Koen » Logged
Earl Grey
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« Reply #12 on: 20 January 2011, 23:03:55 »
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The 'Duel' series is crap - you'll learn nothing new in there. Mostly it points out the Panther's flaws and glorifies the Sherman's strong points (which the Sherman certainly had!). Either way you can spend your money much better on the other books.

'Lorraine 1944' is a good and interesting read although it doesn't focus exclusively on the Panther units but rather on the whole fighting. You can well buy all other campaign books, too.
Same goes for 'Panzer Divisions 1944-45' - general information providing you with the big picture, but nothing too special or particular. Good for someone who wants some conclusive information about how Panzer divisions were organized and employed, but not the kind of detail you're looking for.
Not sure why you included the 'Heavy Jagdpanzer' book on the list - I'm pretty certain the Jagdpanther is in it, too, but since I haven't got that book (yet), I don't know how much information you'll get. If it's about the Jagdpanther you also want this: http://www.amazon.de/Combat-History-Schwere-Panzerjager-Abteilung/dp/0921991606 - VERY expensive, hard to come buy but absolutely worth every cent.
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« Reply #13 on: 21 January 2011, 18:36:15 »
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The 'Duel' series is crap - you'll learn nothing new in there. Mostly it points out the Panther's flaws and glorifies the Sherman's strong points (which the Sherman certainly had!). Either way you can spend your money much better on the other books.

'Lorraine 1944' is a good and interesting read although it doesn't focus exclusively on the Panther units but rather on the whole fighting. You can well buy all other campaign books, too.
Same goes for 'Panzer Divisions 1944-45' - general information providing you with the big picture, but nothing too special or particular. Good for someone who wants some conclusive information about how Panzer divisions were organized and employed, but not the kind of detail you're looking for.
Not sure why you included the 'Heavy Jagdpanzer' book on the list - I'm pretty certain the Jagdpanther is in it, too, but since I haven't got that book (yet), I don't know how much information you'll get. If it's about the Jagdpanther you also want this: http://www.amazon.de/Combat-History-Schwere-Panzerjager-Abteilung/dp/0921991606 - VERY expensive, hard to come buy but absolutely worth every cent.



ok, updated my list
Quote
You can well buy all other campaign books, too.

in the same collection?

anything else about Panthers, Jagdtoys or other kittens?  hihi
« Last Edit: 21 January 2011, 22:45:24 by Koen » Logged
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« Reply #14 on: 22 January 2011, 00:46:38 »
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in the same collection?


Yup, they're all a good read. No idea how accurate they are but I think you can find that out quite easily with some Google Fu.

anything else about Panthers, Jagdtoys or other kittens?


Probably more than you can ever buy - question is what you want. Every book there is? That list would be endless... It'd help if you narrowed it down a bit.
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« Reply #15 on: 22 January 2011, 05:45:17 »
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The 'Duel' series is crap - you'll learn nothing new in there. Mostly it points out the Panther's flaws and glorifies the Sherman's strong points (which the Sherman certainly had!). Either way you can spend your money much better on the other books.

'Lorraine 1944' is a good and interesting read although it doesn't focus exclusively on the Panther units but rather on the whole fighting. You can well buy all other campaign books, too.
Same goes for 'Panzer Divisions 1944-45' - general information providing you with the big picture, but nothing too special or particular. Good for someone who wants some conclusive information about how Panzer divisions were organized and employed, but not the kind of detail you're looking for.
Not sure why you included the 'Heavy Jagdpanzer' book on the list - I'm pretty certain the Jagdpanther is in it, too, but since I haven't got that book (yet), I don't know how much information you'll get. If it's about the Jagdpanther you also want this: http://www.amazon.de/Combat-History-Schwere-Panzerjager-Abteilung/dp/0921991606 - VERY expensive, hard to come buy but absolutely worth every cent.



So what is the difference between:
http://www.amazon.de/Combat-History-Schwere-Panzerjager-Abteilung/dp/0921991606

and
http://www.amazon.com/Combat-History-German-Heavy-Anti-Tank/dp/0811732428/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1295667742&sr=8-1

apart from one being in English and costing $100 less?

Seriously is there a major difference as I am assuming the cheaper one is just an English reprint?
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« Reply #16 on: 22 January 2011, 11:25:12 »
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The 'Duel' series is crap - you'll learn nothing new in there. Mostly it points out the Panther's flaws and glorifies the Sherman's strong points (which the Sherman certainly had!). Either way you can spend your money much better on the other books.

'Lorraine 1944' is a good and interesting read although it doesn't focus exclusively on the Panther units but rather on the whole fighting. You can well buy all other campaign books, too.
Same goes for 'Panzer Divisions 1944-45' - general information providing you with the big picture, but nothing too special or particular. Good for someone who wants some conclusive information about how Panzer divisions were organized and employed, but not the kind of detail you're looking for.
Not sure why you included the 'Heavy Jagdpanzer' book on the list - I'm pretty certain the Jagdpanther is in it, too, but since I haven't got that book (yet), I don't know how much information you'll get. If it's about the Jagdpanther you also want this: http://www.amazon.de/Combat-History-Schwere-Panzerjager-Abteilung/dp/0921991606 - VERY expensive, hard to come buy but absolutely worth every cent.



So what is the difference between:
http://www.amazon.de/Combat-History-Schwere-Panzerjager-Abteilung/dp/0921991606

and
http://www.amazon.com/Combat-History-German-Heavy-Anti-Tank/dp/0811732428/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1295667742&sr=8-1

apart from one being in English and costing $100 less?

Seriously is there a major difference as I am assuming the cheaper one is just an English reprint?

Quote
$22.76
Product Details

    * Paperback: 384 pages
    * Publisher: Stackpole Books; 1St Edition edition (November 30, 2005)
    * Language: English
    * ISBN-10: 0811732428
    * ISBN-13: 978-0811732420
    * Product Dimensions: 10.8 x 8.4 x 1 inches
    * Shipping Weight: 2.2 pounds

Quote
$115.00
Product Details

    * Hardcover: 650 pages
    * Publisher: Fedorowicz (J.J.),Canada (October 2001)
    * ISBN-10: 0921991606
    * ISBN-13: 978-0921991601
    * Product Dimensions: 12.3 x 9.2 x 1.4 inches
    * Shipping Weight: 6 pounds



what we can see is a different format and almost 300 pages extra, probably more luxurious and bigger pictures
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Earl Grey
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« Reply #17 on: 22 January 2011, 14:22:54 »
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Yup, the cheaper ones are reprints wirh less material. There's also a reprint of the book about sPzJgAbt653, but I'm not sure how much is missing in that one since the original print is almost impossible to find anymore (if I can find information, I'll post it, but I'm pretty sure the 653 reprint is missing about the same amount of pages).
Either way the paper quality is worse in the reprints and therefore picture quality is inferior. I got lucky and got my hands on one of the last original 654 books...
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« Reply #18 on: 22 January 2011, 18:34:44 »
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Yup, the cheaper ones are reprints wirh less material. There's also a reprint of the book about sPzJgAbt653, but I'm not sure how much is missing in that one since the original print is almost impossible to find anymore (if I can find information, I'll post it, but I'm pretty sure the 653 reprint is missing about the same amount of pages).
Either way the paper quality is worse in the reprints and therefore picture quality is inferior. I got lucky and got my hands on one of the last original 654 books...

when you have info on the best price if both 653 & 654 plz let me/us know

did you have a look at my updates in Reply #11 ?
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« Reply #19 on: 22 January 2011, 20:23:22 »
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Special Panzer Variants: Development - Production - Operations (The Spielberger German Armor and Military Vehicle Series) [Hardcover]



That particular book I don't know, but the Spielberger books can all be recommended. They're not very easy to read, but quite interesting and provide huge amounts of infromation.

Jagdpanther: Technology, Units and Operations (Tech / Germany) [Hardcover] - Martin Mansoon and Andreas Leandoer - 9197589578



This one I don't know either, but in general people seem to be quite satisfied with the books from L&E. From what I have read and heard they don't provide new information and especially the color profiles are taken from other books. I believe you'll find some rare photographs in it.

when you have info on the best price if both 653 & 654 plz let me/us know



Well, it seems there simply aren't ANY original 653 books left on the market, not even eBay. Maybe you can find one in a second hand bookshop, but otherwise you'll be stuck with the reprint. I believe the reprint is missing something between 250-300 pages at the most, but the general information is there. And the illustrations (color profiles, unit insignia) are complete as far as I know and printed on high quality paper. Same goes for the 654 book - if you can get your hands on an original, do it.

EDIT: The original 654 book seems to still be available from the old publisher, but it's expensive: http://www.jjfpub.mb.ca/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&category_id=1&product_id=9&vmcchk=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=5
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