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Author Topic: Security council backs no fly resolution  (Read 58912 times)
Mad_Russian
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« Reply #20 on: 20 March 2011, 01:16:43 »
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US newscast tonight said Libyan attack was by US lead coalition forces. I don't see US lead anything. I think we are pretty maxed out militarily already. The navy is the least stressed of our capabilities so here is something for them to do as well. So they don't feel left out.

Thanks for the explanation of the ejection seat for the Flogger Rattler. Good stuff.

Good Hunting.

MR
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MontyB
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« Reply #21 on: 20 March 2011, 09:21:05 »
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Gaddafi anti-aircraft guns a danger for NATO
10:39 AM Saturday Mar 19, 2011

BRUSSELS - If NATO mounts an operation to enforce a no-fly zone over Libya, it will almost certainly establish quick superiority over Muammar Gaddafi's outdated air force.

But diplomats and analysts - relying on lessons learned from NATO's intervention in the Balkans in the 1990s - caution that any attempts to launch airstrikes against Gaddafi's ground forces would be far more dangerous, and could result in serious losses.

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MontyB
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« Reply #22 on: 20 March 2011, 09:22:58 »
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Obama endorses military action to stop Gadhafi

Associated Press, Washington | Sat, 03/19/2011 12:26 PM | World A | A | A   |

President Barack Obama endorsed military action against Libya's Moammar Gadhafi after weeks of hesitation and divisions among his advisers, saying U.S. values and credibility are at stake to stop "the potential for mass murder" of innocents.
The U.S. military, which is already stretched thin by two wars and an expanding effort to assist disaster victims in Japan, would take a supporting role, Obama said Friday, with European and Arab partners in the lead. He explicitly ruled out sending American ground forces into the North African nation.
A wide range of U.S. firepower stood ready, including Navy ships and submarines capable of launching Tomahawk cruise missiles with high-explosive warheads that could destroy air defense sites and other potential targets in the earliest stages of any allied military action.

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MontyB
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« Reply #23 on: 20 March 2011, 09:52:32 »
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France denies reports of losing its warplane over Libya

Sun, March 20 2011 06:32 | 85 Views

Moscow  (ANTARA News/RIA Novosti) - The French General Staff denied on Sunday media reports that one of its Air Force planes was shot down, saying that all warplanes returned to their bases.

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« Reply #24 on: 20 March 2011, 12:52:43 »
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I might be wrong here but does anyone else get the impression that this is being driven by the French?

It just strikes me that they have been at the fore front of this from the start and that France opening the bombing campaign has more or less forced the rest to get things underway, I look at the British response and it is clear that they are right behind anyone doing something but are not leading (my guess is they lack the capacity to do much due to commitments in Afghanistan) and Obama just seems confused or has no real idea what the hell is going on.

When you add to this that the "coalition" still hasn't even begun to move assets into the area, it just comes across as a case of the French deciding to get things underway so that there was no way to back out of the UN resolution by sitting around "planning and building up forces" until Qaddafi had finished off the rebels.


don't forget that election times are coming up in France and the little emperor and his minister are low in the polls  whistle

@Rattler: what's your idea why the Mig went down? any idea?
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Rattler
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« Reply #25 on: 20 March 2011, 23:18:04 »
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Re: the Mig? No idea, maybe simple AA fire puncturing a fuel deposit in the wing (it looks like one wing is on fire), but this would not be enough for a straightforward plunge that we witnessed on vid, so my take is that its something more sensitive gotten injured either initially or as a result from fire, secondarily. Hydraulics, electricity ciruits, electronic buses, you name it. No clue really, butr any of the mentioned would be enough.

Rattler
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« Reply #26 on: 21 March 2011, 08:04:48 »
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Libya bombing called successful; endgame unclear

By ROBERT BURNS, AP National Security Writer – Sun Mar 20, 7:49 pm ET

WASHINGTON – The U.S. on Sunday claimed initial success two days into an assault on Libya that included some of the heaviest firepower in the American arsenal — long-range bombers designed for the Cold War — but American officials said Sunday it was too early to define the international military campaign's endgame.
The top U.S. military officer suggested that Libyan strongman Moammar Gadhafi might stay in power in spite of the military assault aimed at protecting civilians, calling into question the larger objective of an end to Gadhafi's erratic 42-year rule. Other top U.S. officials have suggested that a weakened and isolated Gadhafi could be ripe for a coup.

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« Reply #27 on: 21 March 2011, 08:07:47 »
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Gadhafi vows to fight as strikes hit his forces

By HADEEL AL-SHALCHI and RYAN LUCAS, Associated Press – 2 mins ago
TRIPOLI, Libya – Moammar Gadhafi vowed a "long war" as allied forces launched a second night of strikes on Libya, and jubilant rebels who only a day before were in danger of being crushed by his forces now boasted they would bring him down. The U.S. military said the international assault would hit any Gadhafi forces on the ground that are attacking the opposition.

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« Reply #28 on: 21 March 2011, 21:49:30 »
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quite disturbing:

US: Operation Odyssey Dawn
UK: Operation Ellamy
France: Operation Harmattan
Canada: Operation Mobile

and they are speaking about the same operation...  hdbng ...  danger
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MontyB
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« Reply #29 on: 22 March 2011, 01:02:34 »
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And not one of those names is cool.

Odyssey Dawn sounds like a gay night club.
Ellamy and Harmattan sound like they were named after the defense ministers daughter.
Mobile is so confused it sounds like they are setting up cellphone towers.

Why not something a little more manly like Operation Kick Qadaffi's arse, or Operation Mad dogs body bag?
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« Reply #30 on: 22 March 2011, 09:03:04 »
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FLIP-FLOP: OBAMA ADMIN SENDS SIGNALS THAT GADHAFI CAN STAY IN POWER
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 1:43pm by      Emily Esfahani Smith Print »Email »
 
On the Sunday news shows this morning, the Obama administration sent signals that Libya’s Moammar Gadhafi could stay in power–despite earlier statements from Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and President Barack Obama that Gadhafi must go.

On Fox News Sunday today, Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staffs, said “We’re in a situation now that what we do will depend to some degree on what he does,” Mullen told Fox News Sunday.

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« Reply #31 on: 22 March 2011, 19:11:57 »
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pictures: http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2011/03/libya_un_airstrikes_aid_rebels.html
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« Reply #32 on: 23 March 2011, 22:02:03 »
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Gaddafi's son killed in kamikaze attack: reports
By MSN NZ staff
Tue Mar 22 2011 12:00:00 GMT+1300 (New Zealand Daylight Time)

Muammar Gaddafi's son has reportedly been killed in a kamikaze attack after a Libyan air force pilot crashed his jet into the colonel's barracks.

Media organisations linked to Libya's opposition have claimed Gaddafi's sixth son Khamis, 27, died of burns wounds on Saturday night after the attack on the Bab al-Aziziya compound in Tripoli.

But the Libyan government has allegedly denied reports of his death.

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This just sounds more and more bizarre.

Oh and how does this clown spell his name, is it Gaddafi, Kaddafi (sometimes with "y"s), Qaddafi or some other variant of these?

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« Reply #33 on: 23 March 2011, 22:58:04 »
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U.S. Air Force jet crashes over Libya; crewmembers safe
By PATRICK DICKSON
Stars and Stripes
Published: March 22, 2011

KAISERSLAUTERN, Germany — Two crewmembers ejected from their U.S. Air Force F-15E Strike Eagle when the aircraft experienced equipment malfunction over northeast Libya late Monday, according to U.S. Africa Command.

Both crewmembers are safe.

A U.S. official, speaking Tuesday on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak on the record, told The Associated Press that a Marine Corps Osprey search and rescue aircraft retrieved the pilot. He said the second crewmember, a weapons officer, was recovered by Libyan rebel forces and is now in U.S. hands.

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« Reply #34 on: 24 March 2011, 23:49:22 »
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Fom what I gathered yesterday en "El Mundo", the guys were lucky twice: Having survived the "mechanical failure" and having landed in Rebel country, 500 yards form Ghadafi country (my guess anyway, we will see tow Lybias, as be3fore: Bangasi Lybia and Tripolis Lybia).

OTOH, if I understand right, after having  been carried around on the sholders of "Rebels" fot their (failed) effort, suddenly appears an Osprey and targets the rescuers... Several wounded by bullet injuries is the result (and they kept on cheeiring), but the pilots unharmed by luck (or bad shooting).

One pilot gone with rebels, the other one taken by US force to a carrier.

Trigger-happy guys methinks, what age were they? ROE? Recon?

Botched rescue mission basically, but luckily w/o kill of the objective. Nice exampüle of what is wrong with thaqt intervention, in general.

Rattler
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« Reply #35 on: 25 March 2011, 00:41:47 »
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In general, while I dissent with MontyB´s take (for me there is a big difference in someone strafing peacful demonstrators from his fighter jets as compared to - what every nation has and employs - a police force dispersing a manifestation, even if there result deaths in the two situations, theyre dead, but differently), this whatever-called Western operation is turning into a farce well worth of Mr. Kubrick to organize it.

Where Clemenceau said "War is too serious to leave it to the military" Kubricks Gen. Ripper has it head-on for this situation: "War is too important to leave it to politicians"...

Exactly my take in this special example:

In "Strangelove" we see all the same thing that we envision now (w/o the world destruction, of course):No objective has been defined (our president, Mr. Zapatero keeps chaning it every day: "Ghadafi has to be ousted", "Ghadafi is no target", "Ghadafi may stay" were his headlines in three days).

Also, if you look at the discrepancies (Dr. Strangelove: "Sorry, its not 100 Million but only 10 Million deaths") Germany defects, Norway pulls its planes, Italy is threatening to not give bases any longer, and our prez see above...

What is the objective? Who runs this op? What after the op? How long will it take? What will it cost? Are we in war? Is this a police actions with Tornadoes? Or what? The thingy is not clear, and also not what will happen after the no-fly zone is extablished.

From my POV we are viewing a compulsive action of Misters Sarkozy and Cameron, without having thought anything through and no idea at all where this could be leading to or where it should be leading to.

While I agree that mil action seemed to be necessary in the Lybian situation where a madman strafes demjonstrators indiscriminately from air force planes (while officially denying they even exist), I would at least have expected for SC or the national Chiefs of Staff to formulate a coherent objective/mission/execution plan, this has not happened yet (and wont for some time is my guess).

Instead of implementing a no-fly zone (allegedly now enforced) and - maybe - arming the rebels, we indeed have turned into a rebel airforce, without any sense if taken into concern that we are facing 5-6 more similar conflicts elsewhere where nobody is even thinking about requiring a SC resolution.

A farce, really, and Murphy tells us that those fail on the long run (partially this fear and lack of definition of objective and mission is why US, Germany, Norway, Denmark and Italy want out).

I foresee a divided Lybia (as in ancient times, with two capitals: Benghasi and Tripolis), a state without legal governement (like Somalia), trival clan chiefs in charge of oil wells they wont give back for nothing, etc., big disaster. OTOH a change in world plitics that others can call upon, for the first time an international colation has moved for something other than WWII or Cold war. Expect more pirates, this time in the Med.

TA
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« Reply #36 on: 25 March 2011, 01:01:32 »
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I don't see a divided Libya at all, I see this dragging on for a month or so, then the West losing interest and making a deal with Gaddafi over a "ceasefire" and as soon as the West turns its back he will wipe out the opposition and things will be back to square one.

We will then rant, rave and discuss sanctions but in the end he will get what he wants because we lack the resolve to do a job properly.

For once we have a situation where not only do we have UN support to carry out a mission, we have the Arab Leagues support to help and we have the support of a sizable chunk of the Libyan population to depose Qaddafi yet here we sit waffling on about what the mission is, who is going to lead it and do we really want to be there or trust the opposition.

We have argued for years the democracy and freedoms are the way to stabilise the middle east, we now have the people of these countries prepared to risk their lives to achieve this and the best we can do for them is an indecisive half arsed action that will achieve nothing but destroy future progress in the region.

« Last Edit: 25 March 2011, 01:09:43 by MontyB » Logged

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« Reply #37 on: 25 March 2011, 01:17:28 »
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For once we have a situation where not only do we have UN support to carry out a mission, we have the Arab Leagues support to help and we have the support of a sizable chunk of the Libyan population to depose Qaddafi yet here we sit waffling on about what the mission is, who is going to lead it and do we really want to be there or trust the opposition.

We have argued for years the democracy and freedoms are the way to stabilise the middle east, we now have the people of these countries prepared to risk their lives to achieve this and the best we can do for them is an indecisive half arsed action that will achieve nothing but destroy future progress in the region.

You summed it up quite nicely, my friend. Your summary tells clearly why your conclusion wont happen, also:

Think stalemate:

Result will be most probably a dived Lybia with two parts that lack state recognition or the power to enforce it over all the territory, under a no-fly zone, and with war lords talking the talk.

Alternative is the arabs taking over and installing one of their puppets (which the french wont like).

Really, from your perfect analysis, what do you expect as outcome?

Rattler
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« Reply #38 on: 25 March 2011, 01:36:28 »
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The out come in my opinion comes down to whether the West grows a nut sack or not.

If we carry on the way we are I see a stalemate in the short term and a lot of dead rebels in the long term, if we actually decide on a course of action I see the whole thing being over in a week with Qaddafi swinging at the end of a rope.

The great worry is that should we sit back and do nothing then other middle eastern movements will collapse as they realise that they will get no support and in the long term the animosity towards the West will grow as the populations of these countries realise that for all of our posturing we can not be trusted and this will play into the hands of groups like al Queda.
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« Reply #39 on: 29 March 2011, 08:33:56 »
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DoD May Add Air Power in Libya Conflict
March 26, 2011
Associated Press

WASHINGTON -- Even as other nations begin taking a larger role in the international air assault mission in Libya, the Pentagon is considering adding Air Force gunships and other attack aircraft that are better suited for tangling with Libyan ground forces in contested urban areas like Misrata, a senior Pentagon official said Friday.
Navy Vice Adm. William Gortney told a Pentagon news conference that for the second consecutive day, all air missions to enforce a no-fly zone over Libya were flown by non-U.S. aircraft, and U.S. planes conducted about half the missions attacking Libyan air defenses, missile sites and ground forces. Qatar became the first Arab nation to join the effort, flying F-16s in support of the no-fly zone

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