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1  War & Conflicts Discussions / Wars & Conflicts: Books, Movies, Docus and Stories / Re: Series: Band of Brothers Pacific on: 14 December 2010, 03:21:56
  This is a very good series.  It is quite different from the Western Front "Band of Brothers," simply because it had to be.  The western conflict was so different from the Pacific one, in so many ways. 

  "The Pacific" doesn't delve as deeply into a single unit, so you don't get the depth and the personalities as you did in BoB.  However, from the perspectives of the three Marines that the stories are based upon, you get very deep into their feelings about the different horrors of the Pacific war.  One of the absolutely best WWII memoirs is by Eugene Sledge, with his book With the Old Breed.  The book is so much better than the series, but then again I am biased that way.  The books always have so much more in them, and this was the case here for "The Pacific."  However, as a visual projection of the books that it was based upon, this series really can't be beaten.  I highly recommend buying it or seeing it, whichever works best for you.  It is a very moving and strong tribute to the horrors of the Island Campaigns.

  As an additional note to books versus series, the exception to the caveat is that BoB was so much better than Ambrose's book by the same title.  Ambrose has come under heat of late, and I read where a British veteran allegedly gave Ambrose the phrase that was used to title his book.  The British veteran was interviewed after Band of Brothers came out in print, and the veteran told how he was interviewed by Ambrose for the book about Pegasus Bridge, and referred to his mates as a "band of brothers."  Ambrose didn't use much of any of the interview in the book, but suddenly came out with the book about the US paratroopers, coining the phrase he'd heard from the British veteran.  The British soldier laughed about it, and said it was typical of Ambrose and yanks. 

  I found Ambrose's book to be dull and poorly written.  On the other hand, "Band of Brothers" the series was pure genius, riveting, and I couldn't stop watching it, often tearing up at the terrible experiences of the men.  What I believe happened is that when Ambrose interviewed the US veterans, he was rather a cold fish, and the veterans didn't open up to him.  Then, when they were interviewed for the series, and also talked with the actors who were portraying them in the film, and they realized that the producers and the actors actually cared and wanted to get their stories right, the veterans really opened up to them and suddenly the series had some amazing depth and life to it.  That is why the series was as long and as good as it was.

  But, to get back to "The Pacific," it is excellent and should not be missed.

2  NCO Club: Off Topic Discussions / The Lounge - Get A Beer & Just Chatter Away / Re: The Omnipresent, currently playing (music) thread... on: 7 November 2010, 03:47:58
  Very nice.  I'd forgotten completely about Kurt Maloo with all those years since I'd last heard him.  "The Captain of Her Heart" is a real classic, as is "Rangoon Moon."  I can't recall when I heard them last, but remembered them immediately, thanks to you.  That smooth jazz-like sound combined with the really slick beat was great. 

  Sometimes it is the great memories that are associated with a particular song that make them so dear to one's heart.  The really great songs always click with something you were doing at the time you heard it.  Maloo's songs certainly conjure up the memories of smoky bars and the touch of romance or adventure.  Keep up the good work.  I am enjoying it greatly.

3  NCO Club: Off Topic Discussions / The Lounge - Get A Beer & Just Chatter Away / Re: The Omnipresent, currently playing (music) thread... on: 16 October 2010, 02:12:48
  I got your PM.   I've been borrowing a computer of late, as my rig blew up  Geschokt  and I've got to rearrange finances to get a new one.  That and real life have gotten in the way of my posting.  Sorry about that.  Until I get all that sorted out, I'll be around intermittently.

  I liked the Leningrad Cowboys version of "Stairway to Heaven."  They were not far off the original.  I don't know if they were trying to stay close.  The hair was very "Flock of Seagulls" like.  I never really cared too much for that song, partially because it was played a lot on the radio, due to every young girl asking for it as a request.  It seemed like every girl/woman who heard it immediately declared it as their most favorite song ever.  Of course that isn't the case, but growing up, it certainly seemed like it.

  I much prefered "Kashmir" or "Trampled Under Foot."  Now those were really classic Led Zeppelin.  That whole Physical Grafitti album (yes, album, I still have lots of vinyl around, so I am dating myself in that respect!!) was amazing too.  It seemed like every song on it was really great.

  Now, I must comment on your Bell Book and Candle submission.  As usual, you post so many familiar artists, older ones, and a very varied selection as well.  As you so succintly note, enjoy...or not.  I don't care for some,  really enjoy others, and have my eyes and ears opened to many that I was not aware of.

  "Rescue Me" was okay. I wasn't overwhelmed by it.  Then I thought I would listen to "Louise," and I was stunned.  It was amazing.  The piano part was so moving and evocative.  The lyrics were fine too, but I mainly key on the musical arrangement.  It was quite hypnotic.  Thank-you very much for making me aware of the group.

  Along that same line, another group has done the same song.  They are Eisblume, and apparently also German   Do you know what the story is on that?  Eisblume's version seemed even more mesmerizing.  Who was first, as they appear to be completely different groups?  Just thought I would check to see if you knew.

4  NCO Club: Off Topic Discussions / The Lounge - Get A Beer & Just Chatter Away / Re: The Omnipresent, currently playing (music) thread... on: 28 August 2010, 03:55:50
  Very nice.  I thought I recognized the style.  I had to go back and check, but yes, this is the same group that did "My Life" many years back.  I really liked them and thought they had pretty much disappeared, but that is not the case.  So sorry to hear of the passing of your companion.   

5  Wargaming / Beyond Overlord / Barbarossa to Berlin / Afrika Korps / Re: CM: what about it? on: 28 August 2010, 03:41:41
  No, we've never played.  Thanks for the suggestion.  If time constraints ease up, I shall consider that.

6  Wargaming / Beyond Overlord / Barbarossa to Berlin / Afrika Korps / Re: CM: what about it? on: 26 August 2010, 22:04:43
  I still enjoy CMBB and CMAK from time to time, but that real life thing keeps getting in the way.  Since I only do the play against the AI thing, I don't have to worry about seeking out H2H or wondering why my opponent hasn't responded with a new set of moves for the past three weeks.  Yes, I miss out on the thrill of competing head to head, but for now my schedule doesn't allow for even playing by e-mail.  So, I just do the solitaire thing, ramp up the CEB for the AI, and enjoy the action.

  I've always focused on the plight of the little virtual guys in the squads or tanks that are trying to fight for survival - their terrific struggles during those 60 seconds can be very dramatic.  I may not always win, but I try to get as many of my troops out alive as possible.  It makes for great fiction to detail the action, and I've posted quite a few of them in the discussion sections of scenarios at TSD II, usually with dramatic screen shots.  Not surprisingly, many of them are from HSG scenarios.  MR and his mates have been particularly gifted in designing them.  As long as I have a computer that will still run CM, I'll keep playing it now and then.

  There is still an active bunch over at The Scenario Depot II, and I'll jump in to help playtest from time to time.  Some of the guys there are rather prolific scenario developers, but most scenarios seem to be fictional or partially based on fact.  Henk and the HSG crew will faithfully put out historical rides from time to time.

  I actually find some of the wargame sites fun to lurk at, and yes, the younger crowd do a great deal of chest-thumping and ego preening.  I still like seeing some of the posts though, so I wouldn't let that discourage you from stopping by there from time to time.  I very rarely post, but every now and then I'll toss in my two cents, especially when someone is asking about good books to read.  You can always tell the older guys  whistle in those forums, of which I find myself numbered, ha ha.  Don't think you are too old though.  I am surprised by some of the informative postings.

  I can't say I am "active" in wargaming competition, but I've never gotten away from them and I'm always looking for the next really good one to try. 

7  Wargaming / Scenarios: Playtesting / Re: Playtest: Konrad III january 1945 509th attacks on: 21 January 2010, 06:18:37
  It looks pretty impressive.  I am right in the middle of some major real life action, so I might not be able to play it for a while yet.  I was able to download and check out the map and equipment.  It has been a while since I've seen so many Königstiger lined up and ready to hunt in a scenario.

  A quick question...are the flags important for victory conditions for the Germans or are the bridges the major charge?  I know that sometimes the flags are there for directing the AI, but I was wondering if the German player in this battle should ignore the flags and concentrate on the bridges, since that would be the major objective.

  It looks like a really nice set-piece battle.  I like the map, and haven't really looked closely at it yet.

8  War & Conflicts Discussions / Wars & Conflicts: Books, Movies, Docus and Stories / Re: Book: Excellent Book on Battle for Berlin on: 14 January 2010, 03:56:08
  It was under $100 here in the States when I got it.  I checked with the "War Department" before buying it, and she said it was okay.  I agree though, $155 is way up there.  You might try a used copy.  I had to get quite a few "must have" books as used, and was lucky they were in pretty good shape.  I did that for Hells Gate, keeping the price under $80.  Then it gets reprinted recently.  Ugh!!   hdbng

9  War & Conflicts Discussions / Wars & Conflicts: Books, Movies, Docus and Stories / Book: Excellent Book on Battle for Berlin on: 11 October 2009, 20:54:59
I picked up an excellent book on the Battle of Berlin recently.  The title is:

Bloody Streets: The Soviet Assault on Berlin, April 1945 by A. Stephan Hamilton

Author Hamilton has drawn from much of the archival information compiled by Cornelius Ryan, which was tremendous in volume.  Ryan himself said that he simply couldn't include but a fraction of all the information, data, interviews, etc. in his book, Last Battle: The Classic History of the Battle for Berlin.  Hamilton has gone well beyond that, including detailed action in the various sections of the city.  He covers the prelude to the assault on the city, the battle for the Seelowe heights, and then leads into the terrible struggle for the city.

Details and first person accounts abound, and the book is as dramatic as it is factual.  There are many things in this book that were glossed over by history, or simply not included in other books because they were considered embarrassing to the Soviets.  The terrible battle between Zhukov and Koniev to be the first to the Reichstag is covered in detail, and this is the first read I've seen where the fratricide is covered in detail.  The two Soviet armies literally fought each other tooth and nail for days, not realizing they were firing on each other, with Soviet artillery crashing down on Soviet troops.

There are detailed maps of the city, these being aerial photographs showing streets and buildings.  Sometimes the route of an individual tank is shown, so detailed are some of the maps and information presented.  Unit positions are shown in advance and retreat, and you can actually follow some of the units from the narrative and then by looking at the maps, as they move through the city streets.

I would highly recommend this book to any student of the Berlin battles.  It is exceptionally well done and a necessary addition to anyones military library.


edited by Koen:
# ISBN-10: 1906033129
# ISBN-13: 978-1906033125
10  War & Conflicts Discussions / World War II on the Internet / Re: Wilhelm Gustloff: the history and sinking of ... on: 11 November 2009, 20:59:09
  This is easily one of the most horrific disasters I've ever studied.  It never got the coverage it should have, simply because the victims were Germans, fleeing the Soviets.  There were several other ships packed with refugees and wounded soldiers that were also sunk around that same time, with losses in the 3,000 to 5,000 range.  The Wilhelm Gustloff was the worst ever, in history.  The official losses range around 6,000 to 9,000, but unofficially, it has been shown that the true losses were probably in excess of 10,000.  I know those numbers are amazing, but I am inclined to lean towards the highest tally, simply because the ship was dangerously overcrowded by desperate people trying to escape the Red Bear.

  There was a documentary program done on this terrible event, and it was extremely well done.  I cannot remember the name of it, but it was on the history channel or discovery channel.  They put together a computer model to determine approximately how many people actually could have been killed in the disaster, due to the conflicting reports between the Allies (citing lower figures) and German survivors and eyewitnesses (citing higher casualty figures).  The computer model showed that easily there could have been more than 10,000, and probably it was closer to 11,000 who perished.

  I would also direct you to a book by Gunter Grass, entitled Crabwalk.  He weaves a novel about a survivor from the Wilhelm Gustloff, and postwar effects relating to the sinking.  It is an extremely interesting book, and the parts about the sinking are, from what I can tell, historically accurate as well. 

  There are many accounts of the sinking at various internet sites, and Feldgrau.com also has an excellent history of the Wilhelm Gustloff under their Kriegsmarine section, entitled “The History of the Wilhelm Gustloff,” by Jason Pipes.  It doesn’t go into as much detail on the actual horrors of survivors rushing around below decks of the doomed ship as it took on water from the torpedoes, but it gives a lot of good insight, as well as some very nice photos.

  I find it interesting that you would cover this topic.  Not many people know of it, as there seems to be some reluctance of the postwar “allies” to even acknowledge it happened.  The Soviets dove to the wreck and cannibalized it after the war.  They were also curiously reluctant to decorate and reward the submarine commander who punched the torpedoes into the liner’s side.  The Soviets seemed oddly squeamish to let the incident become public knowledge. 

  As we all know, horrible things happen during wartime, but this really was up there in the lists of horror.  Thanks for bringing this to the forum.

11  NCO Club: Off Topic Discussions / The Lounge - Get A Beer & Just Chatter Away / Re: Amazing: Plane-to-Plane Skydive on: 9 November 2009, 02:57:40
  I read, with great interest, the posted analysis by Major Tony Kern, in his paper Darker Shades of Blue: A Case Study of Failed Leadership.  It is very well done, and I found myself seeing so many parallels to management dealing with leadership failures in civilian workplace jobs as well.  Clearly, in military circles, and to some extent, in Para-military type jobs, such as law enforcement, there is a great reluctance for management to discipline a fellow manager, "one of their own," so to speak.  I have found that several reasons come into play for such reluctance.  These all seem to apply to the accident at Fairchild as well as my civilian experiences.

1)   Management is hesitant to discipline a fellow manager because "management" chose to promote that individual to a leadership position.  By disciplining them, they are, in effect, disciplining themselves in a general way, for having made a promotional decision that probably wasn't such a good idea in the first place.  In other words, it makes them (management) collectively look bad.  This also fosters an accompanying climate of us versus them, management versus rank-and-file, because the non-managers are quick to point out that management has no qualms in disciplining them, but always seem reluctant to discipline a boss.

2)    With a high turnover rate of command which was the case at Fairchild, and in some large bureaucratic organizations, there is a tendency to view a managerial problem as something a manager only has to deal with until the manager is transferred away to another duty station.  Then the problem is no longer theirs, and becomes that of the new guy.  At Fairchild, it seems the commanders rotated out fairly quickly, checking off another command box and moving on to bigger or better jobs.  In a large bureaucracy, the managers may not move around so often, so then the solution is to move the problem to another duty station.  But, the ideal situation for the manager is to plunge their head into the sand, hope that nothing bad happens during their tour of duty, and then move on quickly and safely, with the problem continuing for the next guy.

3)   The out-going commander or head manager may be reluctant to brief the new guy about problems in his command, because this will reflect poorly on the out-going manager’s ability to command.  In the case of Fairchild, each out-going commander knew the problems with their “rogue” B-52 pilot/expert, but chose not to bring the new commander up to speed on him, because the system allowed for them to quickly and quietly move away from the problem, and without any sort of written record, they couldn’t be scrutinized for any failure to command properly.  If a manager is reluctant to lead or manage, then his safest recourse is to quietly slip away from his former post, with no formal record or even verbal conversation with the new commander, and thus he leaves the new appointee cold, starting out with no knowledge of any ongoing problems he should be aware of.  The out-going manager will probably believe, or tell himself to justify it in his own mind, that the incoming commander or manager should be the one to discover problems inherent with his new command.  The old adage that “I had to discover all the problems when I arrived, so he should have to do the same thing when he comes in” simply perpetuates the problems inherent with the system.  Over time this behavior and lack of leadership actually becomes the expected norm for managers or commanders.  They don’t expect, or even want, to be told about ongoing problems in their new command, preferring to discover them on their own.  This then becomes a test of their own leadership prowess.

All of this is amazing to people who have not experienced this sort of action, because they inevitably ask the valid question, “If this was known all along, why didn’t someone do something?”  Those who live it everyday become inured to the situation, knowing that it is endemic to the job, and that until the “leaders” do something about it, there is nothing they can do to fix the situation.  They themselves hope for transfers, but in the case of Fairchild, many chose the drastic and probably career-damaging course of action of refusing to fly with Lt. Col. Holland.  Many more simply knew something really bad had to happen soon, and as one put it,

Red flags of warning were abundant-- and yet those who could act did not do so, in spite of recommendations to ground Bud Holland. As one B-52 crewmember said about the accident, "You could see it, hear it, feel it, and smell it coming. We were all just trying to be somewhere else when it happened." 6
Incredibly enough, all those who refused to fly with him were probably ending a long-term career with the Air Force, as long as commanders continued to protect Lt. Col Holland.  The terrible accident resulting in the death of Holland and his crew forced the Air Force to reconsider their position.  The men who refused to fly with Holland were vindicated in their fears and concerns, and the Air Force had to act.  However, all those who were brave enough to stand up and refuse to fly with Holland had inexorably damaged their careers, and would likely not be promoted or get decent postings, simply because they had tried to make the commanders do something that should have been done long ago.

I have seen dangerous incompetence promoted, and then kept around even though they were clearly mistakes and should never have been promoted in the first place.  They usually end up quietly promoted or transferred to some HQ position, where they either finish out in imposed obscurity, or re-invent themselves and come out of HQ even more dangerous than before.  But rarely, if ever, are they downgraded, having their promotions rescinded and being relegated back to being rank-and-file.  Management will protect their lower-level managers, unless the mistakes made by them are so grievous in nature that no upper level manager will risk their own careers to protect the guy.  And even then, if possible, they will pigeon-hole the problem manager into some safe place, where he allegedly can’t hurt anyone – meaning he can’t hurt anyone’s career, rather than hurt someone in the non-manager category. 

The commander in the Fairchild accident, Col. Pellerin, got off lightly in his punishment, and likely his contemporaries all shook their heads and clucked about how unlucky Pellerin was, because “but for the grace of God” it could have been one of them.

Rattler, do we know what happened to Major Tony Kern?  After he published this paper, I would imagine that his career in the Air Force was essentially ended.  The Big Birds would have closed ranks and seen to it that he was punished for his temerity.  Perhaps, banished to laundry and morale officer in Greenland?  I have seen it happen, often.

Thanks for posting this.  It is a sad commentary on the failures of our leaders, both in uniform and in high manager positions.  Kern’s article was excellent, and right on target.

12  NCO Club: Off Topic Discussions / The Lounge - Get A Beer & Just Chatter Away / Re: The Omnipresent, currently playing (music) thread... on: 19 October 2009, 21:30:54
  The interesting part of this post is the new stuff I pick up.  Kathy's Song by Apoptygma Berzerk is very nice.  I was not aware of the band, and now I am.  I listened to a few of their other songs, Shadow being a good one too.  There does seem to be a pretty strong influence from groups like Depeche Mode, especially evident in that song.  Sometimes Techo just hits the spot.

13  Welcome To The War & Tactics Forum / WaT Tech Stuff: Forum Features, How-to´s, Q&A / Problem with Comment Section not Scrolling with Text on: 11 October 2009, 21:12:20
  Recently I noticed that if I type a lot of text in this very box, suddenly I cannot see the line I am typing on, except for the moment that I hit the key, because the line then bounces up from the line being typed.  For short messages this is no problem, but at times I get verbose, typing a lot of text, and cannot really see what I am typing.  I hadn't seen this problem for quite a while, and only recently, perhaps in the past few months, has this started to occur.  It is not insurmountable, and I can always type in Word and then cut and paste, but I don't know why this would be suddenly happening.  I have to use the side bar arrow or the mouse wheel to move the text down to the bottom and correct what I wrote.  It is almost as if I've reached some sort of limit to the text that can be typed, and once the bar on the side of the box is activated, then I have the problem.  I am not sure how many lines it takes before I end up defaulting into this situation.  In this case I've typed 14 or so lines and the problem did not happen here.  However, the problem happened in my post about a book I was recommending, Bloody Streets.  I didn't count the lines there, but that just occurred today, with the problem I mention.  However, it doesn't seem to be happening here.  Curious.

  I am using a Dell XPS, with Windows XP, and Internet Explorer.  I thought I would toss that out to see what you thought. 

14  War & Conflicts Discussions / Gulf War II / Re: Bayonet Charge on: 10 October 2009, 06:08:59
  I can see why.  It is a good looking weapon.  The intimidation factor cannot be ignored.

  Question on your room entry.  Do all three enter almost at the same time?  I can see how that would be effective if the door was fairly wide, but most of the doorways in the US wouldn't allow for that maneuver.  Thus domestic police forces would utilize a rapid entry, in a criss-cross fashion, or a button-hook to each side, with a two man entry only.  If heavy body armor was utilized, that would make the entry even more cumbersome.  I do like the idea of pushing three through at one time, but it would take a lot of practice to make it a smooth maneuver.  Also, you have that "fatal funnel" to contend with.

15  Wargaming / Scenarios: Designing - Research & discussions / Re: Editor: Reichstag CMBB on: 10 October 2009, 06:00:33
  Ah, okay, still in the construction phase.  Your mix of German forces is correct.  They were really a veritable hodge-podge of forces.  In the most recent book I read about Berlin, the Wehrmacht and SS men got a laugh about the Kriegsmarine troops.  The Navy men would repeat every order received, as their training on board ships required them to repeat their orders to make sure they understood the commands.  This was a source of amusement for the hardened Wehrmacht and SS men.  Unfortunately for the Navy men, they died like flies, not having the proper training to survive the hell of combat in Berlin.

  As for the artillery, it was mainly used to soften up the neighborhoods being assaulted.  Thus, your pre-set barrages would be historically correct.  Also, once they suffered their usual grievous losses while recklessly pushing into heavily defended areas, they would pull back and level the neighborhood with more rockets/artillery.

  The flak turm were extremely deadly, and whole Soviet tank units were decimated by the guns on the towers.

  I thought the map looked accurate.  There are some really good aerial shots in the book Bloody Streets: The Soviet Assault on Berlin, April 1945 by A. Stephan Hamilton, should you need further references.  Also, it is an amazing read about the battle, and had me spellbound throughout.  It is well worth picking up. 

16  War & Conflicts Discussions / Gulf War II / Re: Bayonet Charge on: 9 October 2009, 03:59:35
13th Redneck,
  I am sure that is the case for individuals in hand-to-hand combat within rooms or buildings.  If soldiers charge into a building to clear it, they may well run up against insurgents that are so close that it is easier to utilize the bayonet rather than try to fire off rounds, especially if they are engaged in a melee, and don't want to hit their own guys with friendly fire.

  I just wasn't aware of a situation where US troops lined up and charged, en masse', in a "classical" bayonet charge, as was the case with the Scots.  Let me know if you have something specific.  I'd like to read about it.

  It is interesting to see how such tactics have still managed to survive the test of time and the leaps of technology.  It will always be the grunt that takes and holds ground, usually through hand-to-hand combat.  That is as true today as it was from the time of the Romans and before.

17  Wargaming / Scenarios: Designing - Research & discussions / Re: Editor: Reichstag CMBB on: 9 October 2009, 03:51:06
  Give me an idea of where the enemy is coming from.  I looked at the map and it is quite interesting.  I've never seen someone try to represent one of those practically invincible flak turm before.  I think you might have done that quite well.

  I would be taking the German side with the AI handling the Allied, but I need some more details on where the threat is coming from.  Or is it even ready to play yet?  Did you just want comments on the map?  I only saw one flage over by the Moltke Bridge.  No flags for the Reichstag?  Sorry for all the questions.  I like the look of it so far.

18  Wargaming / Games: Reviews/Previews & General Discussions / Order of War by Square Enix on: 5 October 2009, 03:08:55
I was wondering if anyone had a take on this new wargame.  I've been looking at the trailors and some of their videos over on the site, but can't really get a feeling for the game.  I can't figure out if it is tactical, strategic, or maybe some sort of melding of the two.  It looks like a real time instead of turn based, but I get no feel for whether it is realistic or semi-realistic.  I didn't get much of a sense for the game even after bouncing around on their forum site.  I did notice that it is 1944 onwards (I'm guessing June 6, 1944), so you miss out on everything that happened before then. 

Please let me know if anyone else is looking at it or has purchased it.  I'd be interested in their recommendations.

19  NCO Club: Off Topic Discussions / The Lounge - Get A Beer & Just Chatter Away / Re: The Omnipresent, currently playing (music) thread... on: 5 October 2009, 02:33:30
Whoa, Jilly.  I know you said you like to listen to loud music while you drive, but if you listen to Cheryl belting out "Real Gone" while driving, there is no way you can stay at the speed limit.  The Law is going to get you for sure.  Really cool song.

Between you and Rattler, this is one very interesting post.  The diversity is staggering.  I see music I've never heard of, and some that I didn't think anyone even knew about any more.  I was out of town for about two weeks, and it is tough to catch up on this post after all that time.

Rattler, Jethro Tull has always been a favorite, but oddly, I've not got any on CD.  I have a few of his records.  Yes, vinyl.  Luckily I still have a turntable.  Thick as a Brick was really amazing.  Thanks for reviving that for me.  One of my favorites, as well as.....Aqualung, of course.  He had such an interesting and somewhat mesmerizing way of melding classical and rock.  I don't know of anyone else who used the flute in rock-and-role like he did.

You and Jilly switched gears so quickly.  It is hard to keep up.  Rod Stewart, again such great music.  My all time favorite of his is "Infatuation."  The video is pretty slick too.

Then you have Beethoven mixed in as well.  The Ninth Symphony 2nd movement is always a classical favorite.  I always enjoyed the way Beethoven utilized the french horn.  I played that years ago, all the way into college, and can still play it fairly well.  The camera man went a long way to dramatize the music being played.  My father had me watch Leonard Bernstein whenever he was on public TV.  I confess that I'm not familiar with Karajan.  Really superior music.  I could listen to it all day.

20  NCO Club: Off Topic Discussions / The Lounge - Get A Beer & Just Chatter Away / Re: The Omnipresent, currently playing (music) thread... on: 16 September 2009, 05:58:59
Yes, I agree with Rattler on that.  However, none can really stand up to the original.  Yes, yes, I am showing my age on that, but the original was so starkly sad and poignant that you could feel the pain and loneliness.  The instruments were solo as well, even enhancing how alone the characters in the lyrics really were. 

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