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1  NCO Club: Off Topic Discussions / The Aisles: Non-military News and Snippets / Re: Palestine rejoices after recognition on: 3 December 2012, 12:36:08

I got several phone calls from colleagues, all members of the police (one is an officer on the court itself)who told me that your last remark is punishable by Dutch law as antisemitism.
Please remove that phrase about Hitler from your topic.

(makes me wonder whether we shouldn't have put up with Hitler for another couple of years and saved ourselves all these problems.)

Better yet just have it deleted as it has already been quoted in other posts and close my account with it as I see no point in being part of a forum that panders to one persons whims.
2  NCO Club: Off Topic Discussions / The Aisles: Non-military News and Snippets / Re: Palestine rejoices after recognition on: 3 December 2012, 01:39:43
makes me wonder whether we shouldn't have put up with Hitler for another couple of years and saved ourselves all these problems.

don't agree with this statement either, killing and the logical wars don't end anything neither are a solution of what so ever, they are signs of weakness

but yes, mankind IS weak cause we seem only capable to start problems but never end/prevent them

I am not sure I care anymore, it is by now abundantly clear to anyone with an IQ above 5 that Israel will never accept a Palestinian state in any form greater than a modern equivalent of the Warsaw ghetto and all we do is sit here listening to a group who cant make peace because they refuse to see the other side as anything more than animals so at some point I think we have to decide whether we really should be backing a side that really is the modern day version of the SS.

I grew up in a world that remembered the holocaust and how the plucky little Israel struggled to come into existence only to discover that the only thing Israel learnt from the holocaust was how to perpetrate it onto another race in such a way that they could keep it just under the radar of what America could tolerate and still pay for.

At some point the west has to stop accepting guilt for something it wasn't party to, grow a moral nutsack and reign in Israel before some other crazy bastards turn it into a glowing hole in the ground.
3  NCO Club: Off Topic Discussions / The Aisles: Non-military News and Snippets / Re: Palestine rejoices after recognition on: 2 December 2012, 18:59:39
I see that there's no point in trying to discuss this in a neutral, objective way

you don't reply/react to what we write or ask and when you furthermore accuse me of supporting terrorist groups I have to end the discussion from my side

it's a shame tough since the complete issue needs discussions to end it but when we can't seem to do so why should we expect this from those on the frontline

This has been one of my major issues if you look at all the comments they always put it down to Palestinian intransigence as the root cause and yet every one I have ever met has accepted a two state option however the hardest problem I have encountered is finding an Israeli or one of its supporters that will even recognise the Palestinians as human.

As I have mentioned elsewhere I am amazed that 70 years ago Jews required the world to save them from a nation that was exercising the same racial superiority BS that we now get from Israel, makes me wonder whether we shouldn't have put up with Hitler for another couple of years and saved ourselves all these problems.
4  The Military / The Military: Newsflash / 4 frigates on line for Turkish Navy on: 1 December 2012, 23:52:24
4 frigates on line for Turkish Navy
ANKARA - Hürriyet Daily News

Turkey has chosen an ambitious project to follow the building of eight corvettes: this time the production of four fair defense frigates worth around $4 billion dollars, the largest ships in the inventory of the country’s Navy.

A statement on the website of the Undersecretariat for Defense Industries (SSM) on Nov. 22 cited the need to procure air defense frigates for the Navy that would provide defense against the classical and modern munitions fired by aircraft and other platforms, command and control, early warning, reconnaissance, surface warfare, underwater warfare and electronic warfare and air defense warfare.
It said the feasibility studies of the frigates had been completed and a “project model” would now be devised for the frigates to be procured. The model is expected to be a manufacture model by a private naval shipyard, but the complexity of the frigate would probably need the contributions of a foreign company.


5  NCO Club: Off Topic Discussions / The Aisles: Non-military News and Snippets / Re: Palestine rejoices after recognition on: 1 December 2012, 20:41:15
Just read what I said.
If the Palestinian people free themselves from the terrorists and Iran they can become a serious partner for Israel.
Rightnow the only place where Palestinians can work and go to the market is in Israel, they have no freedom in their Arab neighboring countries.
Israel lets a lot of goods through into Gaza, there isnt a thing called poverty there.

Why do Palestinians have to be a partner for Israel?
Why do other Arab countries have to accept Palestinians?

The realities of self determination are that people get to make their own decisions, they may lead to peace or war, they allow for people to say no this is my land I don't want you here.

I think you are deliberately avoiding answering the questions asked and failed understand what self determination means.
- Why is the UN recognising Palestine a road block to peace.
- How do you justify the continued expansion of settlements on occupied land (an illegal action even by American standards).

Unfortunately it is becoming very apparent that the only chance for peace in the area will be after a catastrophe in Israel and maybe Iran is just crazy enough to bring that into effect.

6  NCO Club: Off Topic Discussions / The Aisles: Non-military News and Snippets / Re: Palestine rejoices after recognition on: 1 December 2012, 01:05:13
Read the article I wrote a few days ago.
The Palestinian people are being held hostage by a few extremist groups.
Once they throw them from power they can form a state and have peace with Israel.
If you have been to Israel you know that the reports from the media arent right.

There is one place where Palestinians can live in relative freedom, have work and there children can go to school..........in Israel.
Look at their Arab brothers in the neighboring countries, where do you think they stay? ......in (prison)camps without any rights nor work.
As long as terrorists are a partner for peacetalks  whom clearly state they want to destroy Israel, (and be sure they kill you as well cause you are a westerner and a non believer) there will be no peace unless there is a Palestinian uprising against these groups.

This is a black day, a decision which will lead to more bloodspilling.

Well I will concede that I have not been to Israel but the funny thing is that the wife has in fact she lived there for 12 months primarily because her Grandmother felt she needed to get in touch with her Jewish side.

Here is the interesting thing she makes me look like a moderate when it comes to the Israel/Palestine thing in fact there are times when she makes Hamas look like moderates her opinion of the place and the people is unprintable, she went to Israel as a Jewish woman and came back a Catholic, work out the logistics of that.

I see this step as a logical one, how can you talk about a future with another "country" when that other "country" isn't a "country"

I don't see a solution anymore, nobody's making sense, I see so much bullshit in those ridiculous speeches on TV.... there is not 1 politician neither in the US or Israel who talks the truth, talks about peace...

They only see devils on the other side of the 'wall'.... yep, that physical wall... give me a name of a politician and try to convince that he/she wants peace! I dare you!

edit: just saw Clinton: the resolution is an obstruction on the path to peace.... f*** you.... what path? WHAT PATH?.....

I agree the only chance to end this thing is now to back a Palestinian state before Israel builds the Palestinians out of house and country, I read that Israel's response is to build 3000 more homes in East Jerusalem I am guessing this will be the beginning of yet another land grab to show just how much Israel wants peace.
As for Clinton well she can fuck off as well, I am amused at this bull s**t about how this decision is a road block to peace yet not one of them can actually say how it is a road block unless it is somehow thought giving Israel everything it wants is negotiating.

So Stoffel time to put up or shut up (figuratively of course) what are the negatives of recognising a Palestinian state based on the 1967 borders with land swaps to sort out problems?
7  NCO Club: Off Topic Discussions / The Aisles: Non-military News and Snippets / Re: Palestine rejoices after recognition on: 30 November 2012, 07:44:52
I guess I should add my opinion to this... and here it is...
 Brede lach

I realise this will be met with a counter response from Stoffel but I am pleased for the Palestinians it is small step in the right direction, the recognition of the Palestinian right to self determination now gives them something to work with and puts them on an equal footing with Israel.

It always amuses me when the USA and Israel talk of this as counter productive to the peace process yet none of them seem to be able to explain just how it is counter productive, in my opinion the only thing this decision can claim to be is counter productive to is the status quo and the only ones winning that scenario are Israel.
8  NCO Club: Off Topic Discussions / The Aisles: Non-military News and Snippets / Palestine rejoices after recognition on: 30 November 2012, 07:36:05
Palestine rejoices after recognition
2:06 PM Friday Nov 30, 2012

Palestinians have partied well into the night after the UN General Assembly voted overwhelmingly to recognise Palestine as a non-member state.

The 193-member assembly voted 138-9 with 41 abstentions for the resolution which enables the Palestinians to join UN agencies and sign international treaties.

A Palestinian flag was quickly unfurled on the floor of the General Assembly, behind the Palestinian delegation.

Israel and the United States were joined by Canada, the Czech Republic, Panama, the Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru and Palau in opposing the vote, with US United Nations ambassador Susan Rice saying Palestinians "will wake up to find little has changed".

"Today's unfortunate and counterproductive resolution places further obstacles in the path of peace," Rice said.

The US urged Israel and the Palestinian Authorities to return to direct talks without preconditions.

The vote, however, was greeted with celebration in the Palestinian Territories.

In the West Bank city of Ramallah, hundreds crowded into the main square waved Palestinian flags and chanted "God is great".

Aucklander Frank Ritchie, education and advocacy manager for TEAR Fund, was at The Wall (dubbed the "Security Fence" by the Israelis) near Bethlehem on the West Bank at the time of the vote.

9  The Military / The Military: Newsflash / Will Russia ever have its own aircraft-carrier? on: 28 November 2012, 22:59:15

Will Russia ever have its own aircraft-carrier?
A piece of good news has arrived for Russian shipbuilders and marine sailors: the main (that is, the first in a series) multipurpose nuclear submarine Severodvinsk, Project 885 (code "Yasen"), running trials in the White Sea, has successfully launched a state-of-the-art cruise missiles at ground targets. The success is obvious. However, the positive news has revealed a number of failures in the Russian shipbuilding industry, which, alas, are no less obvious.

According to ITAR-TASS news agency, which quoted a source in the General Staff of the Russian Navy, submarine Severodvinsk fired the missile at a sea range in a special area of the White Sea. The sub fired the standard rocket complex Caliber, which had been successfully tested at ground complexes before.

10  The Military / The Military: Newsflash / Northrop Grumman Develops Skyguard Laser Defense System For U.S. on: 28 November 2012, 22:55:41
Northrop Grumman Develops Skyguard Laser Defense System For U.S., Allies to Defend Against Rocket, Missile, Mortar Attacks

REDONDO BEACH, Calif., July 12, 2006 (PRIMEZONE) -- Northrop Grumman Corporation (NYSE:NOC) has developed the Skyguard laser-based air defense system for U.S. government agencies and allies that require near-term defense against short-range ballistic missiles, short- and long-range rockets, artillery shells, mortars, unmanned aerial vehicles and cruise missiles.

A photo accompanying this release is available at: http://media.primezone.com/noc/

Skyguard is derived from the successful Tactical High Energy Laser (THEL) test bed and its predecessors developed by Northrop Grumman for the U.S. Army and the Israel Ministry of Defence. Benefiting from significant technological advancements, Skyguard has higher power than heritage systems and a larger beam, making it a much more capable system, the company said.

11  War & Conflicts Discussions / Russian Civil War / Re: US Forces in Russia on: 27 November 2012, 22:27:48
To be fair I don't see much of a hill either.

Seems an unusual title really.
12  The Military / The Military: Newsflash / The Economics of the Iron Dome on: 27 November 2012, 22:24:30

The Economics of the Iron Dome

25 November 2012

As my friend Byron Callan of Capital Alpha mentions in a report this week, campaigns and wars often feature iconic weapons. In 1991, the first-generation Patriot missile won plaudits in the US, the Gulf, and Israel. Whatever its technical performance, its political role was quite important. And after the past week's round of fighting between Hamas and Israel, we might say something similar about the Iron Dome system. For thinking about the value invested, it wouldn't be obvious ex ante that guided missiles are a good investment as a defense against quite inexpensive unguided rockets. Working quickly through the numbers, though, that conclusion may be a bit overdone, and this will lead me (see well below) to an important conclusion about marketing military materiel. Israeli military spending is not particularly transparent, so I have had to discern the figures from a variety of press reports. But none of those figures are wildly out of line with others, so for quick analytical purposes, it's all a wash.

On the one hand (as Harry Truman's stereotyped economist would say), those numbers are not good. The Israelis have spent, if I have gauged the press reports correctly, something like $800 million on development, production, and deployment over the past eight years. They have four batteries near Gaza in a first batch, and a fifth in a second batch that just came on line. They're looking to spend another $70 million shortly, for another four batteries in that latter batch to defend the north. Each interceptor missile appears to cost slightly more than $50,000; the Israelis shot about 500 of those in the past two weeks, so prime contractor Rafael just got something above $25 million more for ammunition. Like many things Israeli, a large chunk of that money ($275 million) will have come from the United States, but analytically, it was considerable investment.

13  The Military / The Military: Newsflash / Can US keep pressure on in Persian Gulf if USS Nimitz is delayed? on: 27 November 2012, 22:20:35
Can US keep pressure on in Persian Gulf if USS Nimitz is delayed?
Michael Auslin | AOL Defense
November 26, 2012

Iran. Gaza. Syria. Political opposition in the Emirates and adjoining states. The Persian Gulf region simmers and America may have only one carrier group deployed there at the end of this year. Should we worry?

Let's examine the puzzle. The USS Nimitz's planned deployment to the Persian Gulf may be delayed. That is raising concern, since the Navy will be down to just one carrier in the region during the months of December and January.

But are carrier groups the only agents of US influence in the region? The U.S. Air Force has numerous bases and installations from which it operates. Indeed, Air Force tactical air is a key part of any joint air operations, while the real threat the United States poses to Iran's nuclear ambitions comes from Air Force heavy bombers and their massive ordinance loads, which are operated by Global Strike Command and based in the continental U.S., as well as in the region. Similarly, any theater air operations will be dependent on Air Force tankers in the skies off the battlefield.

14  The Military / The Military: Newsflash / The US should buy more F-22s to contain China on: 27 November 2012, 00:17:36
Less Is Not Enough: Reflections on China’s Military Trajectory and the U.S.
Richard D. Fisher, Jr.
Senior Fellow, International Assessment and Strategy Center

After having spent its first year in office trying to enlist China into a “comprehensive partnership” of shared leadership to solve global challenges, in 2010 the Administration of President Barack Obama received a series of jolts from Beijing, that along with a growing chorus of concern from Washington’s friends in Asia, promoted what in late 2011 the Administration started calling a “Pivot” or “Rebalancing” of U.S. strategy toward Asia. A parallel U.S. Defense Department (DoD) strategy shift began before the Obama Administration with the 2003-to-2005 gathering consensus that China was largely pursuing an anti-access/area-denial (A2/AD) strategy designed to prevent U.S. forces from thwarting Chinese ambitions such as forcing “reunification” with Taiwan and imposing control over the South China Sea. At an institutional level, DoD’s response was signified by the November 2011 establishment of the Air-Sea Battle Office, which ostensibly would seek craft joint-service solutions to anti-access threats, with care taken to announce it was not directed specifically at China, though meeting a Chinese-level of challenge was the measure for success.

15  The Military / The Military: Newsflash / Erdogan calls Russia's Patriot reaction 'very wrong' on: 27 November 2012, 00:14:03
Erdogan calls Russia's Patriot reaction 'very wrong'
Tuesday,November 27 2012

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has described Russia's harsh reaction to NATO’s deployment of Patriot missiles near Turkey's border with Syria as “very wrong,” and said such a reaction almost amounted to intervening in Turkey's domestic affairs.

Erdogan's remarks came late Thursday while speaking to journalists on board a plane en route from Pakistan to Turkey.

16  The Military / The Military: Newsflash / Berlin seals budget, pulling debt brake early on: 27 November 2012, 00:11:13
Berlin seals budget, pulling debt brake early
Date 23.11.2012

German politicians have concluded negotiations on the country's 2013 budget. The government will still borrow billions in the coming year, but the figure's markedly lower than it was for the present year.

The debate might be ongoing in Brussels, with Chancellor Angela Merkel not hopeful of a resolution, but the government in Berlin has signed off on its 2013 spending after four days of parliamentary debate.

Germany's opposition parties largely opposed the budget in the final vote, making the tally 312 parliamentarians in favor, 258 against, with no abstentions.

17  NCO Club: Off Topic Discussions / The Chambers: Political Discussion Board / Re: It has started.... on: 23 November 2012, 01:32:32
I figured I would pull a necro on this one because it seemed so final when the first post was made back in 2008 now here we are 4 years later and what has changed?

Last week we heard Israel preparing to destroy Hamas to make them "howl for peace" and today we are back to business as usual.

I am starting to think the whole Israel/Palestine thing is just a giant Nigerian scam where both sides have decided they need the war to continue so Israel can suck more money out of the USA and Hamas can fleece Iran.
18  The Military / The Military: Newsflash / India, Japan ink pact on rare earths export on: 22 November 2012, 00:04:15
India, Japan ink pact on rare earths export
By Ritu Sharma | ENS - NEW DELHI
17th November 2012 09:52 AM

With China tightening control over the export of rare earth mineral used in mobile phones, hybrid cars and missile guidance systems, Japan on Friday inked a trade pact to import over 4,000 tonnes of the rare earths from India - second largest producer in the world.

The pact, along with an agreement for social security, was signed between the two countries despite Prime Minister Manmohan Singh putting off his Tokyo trip.

19  The Military / The Military: Newsflash / Swedish Maritime Administration Orders Seven AW139 Helicopters for Search and Re on: 22 November 2012, 00:02:17
Swedish Maritime Administration Orders Seven AW139 Helicopters for Search and Rescue

AgustaWestland, a Finmeccanica company, is pleased to announce that it has signed a contract with the Swedish Maritime Administration for seven AW139 intermediate twin helicopters. The aircraft will be equipped for Search and Rescue (SAR) operations with the first helicopter scheduled to be delivered in the spring of 2013 and the final one in 2014. The Swedish Maritime Administration is the authority responsible for Maritime and Aeronautical Search and Rescue Services in Sweden and will operate the AW139 helicopters from 5 bases across the country. Geoff Hoon, Managing Director International Business, AgustaWestland said after the signing of the contract “We are delighted that the Swedish Maritime Administration has chosen the AW139 to meet its future SAR helicopter requirement following a detailed evaluation process. The AW139, as the world’s bestselling and most capable helicopter in its class, will provide Sweden with an excellent SAR capability.”

20  The Military / The Military: Newsflash / EADS to see reshuffle of state-owned shares on: 22 November 2012, 00:00:04
EADS to see reshuffle of state-owned shares
Date 20.11.2012

Germany and France are reported to have struck a deal on a reshuffle of state-owned shares in European aerospace and defense group EADS. Berlin and Paris are likely to hold 12 percent of shares each.

The German state aims to take over 12 percent of the shares of European aerospace and defense giant EADS, the business daily newspaper Handelsblatt reported in its Tuesday edition. This would give Berlin a greater influence on decision making in the parent company of jet producer Airbus.

The newspaper maintained that Germany and France had agreed on a new scheme under which the two nations would in future hold a 12-percent state-owned stake in the company each.

The Handelsblatt said Germany's KfW bank would take over a 7.5-percent share package from carmaker Daimler, with much of the remainder to come from an investor group called Dedalus.

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