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Author Topic: Bayonet Charge  (Read 9166 times)
Heinrich505
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« on: 28 February 2009, 21:51:17 »
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I have to admit with a certain measure of chagrin that I hadn't heard of this until just the other day.  I am not sure it was really publicized in the US, but I could be wrong on that.  I am sure it was not something the newspapers wanted to print in the great Pacific Northwest, where greater publicity is sure to be found with concern for the pods of killer whales in the Puget Sound and the safety of sea lions who are munching on the salmon that are trying to surf up the Columbia river, not to mention that the ice and snow-covered streets in Seattle weren't salted, due to concern that the salt would wash into the already salty Puget Sound.  How's that for logic.

I had wrongly thought bayonet charges were a thing of the past, but was surprised to learn they are not.  Since it is the Scots, that is quite understandable.  They have always been fearsome warriors, so much so, that the Romans had to build a wall to keep them at bay, as they were too savage to conquer for even the Romans.  It is even more interesting to note that the previous bayonet charge was also attributed to the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders, which took place during the Falklands War.

This charge was about 200 yards across mainly open ground.  Having read some more into it, apparently the lads didn't replicate a banzai charge, or the human wave of the Soviets, but instead charged in groups, dropping every 15 or so yards to fire some rounds, then up again and bounding fowards another 15 yards, yelling in a fearsome fashion designed to fully terrify the enemy - as only the Scottish troops can.   


WITH BAYONETS ATTACHED, THEY FINISHED OFF THE ENEMY WHO HAD NOT RUN AWAY..
Glasgow Daily Record ^ | 5/21/04 | Keith Mcleod And Michael Christie

Posted on Friday, May 21, 2004 4:18:58 AM by TrebleRebel

WITH BAYONETS ATTACHED, THEY FINISHED OFF THE ENEMY WHO HAD NOT RUN AWAY.. May 21 2004

SCOTS TELL OF CHARGE by Keith Mcleod And Michael Christie


Quote
*SCOTS soldiers last night told how they launched a bayonet charge on Iraqi militiamen after hours of battle.

An Army insider last night gave the Record an insight into the bravery of the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders.

They were forced to use 'cold steel' as supplies of ammunition ran low.

Many of the militiamen turned and fled but the close-quarters fighting left around 20 rebels dead.

Thirty-five of Shia Moslem cleric Muqtada al-Sadr's followers died and two British troops were injured during the three-hour battle.

A senior Argylls officer said last night: 'After a fierce fight and with small amounts of ammo left, they put in a conventional left-flanking attack.

'With bayonets attached, they finished off the enemy who had not run off.'

It was the first time in 22 years the Army had used bayonets in action.

The last came when the Scots Guards stormed Argentinian positions during the Falklands War.

The battle developed following a distress call from a group of eight British soldiers last Friday.

The troops under the command of Major Adam Griffiths were surrounded on the notorious Route Six highway while en route to Camp Abu Naji in southern Iraq. Their LandRovers were riddled with bullets and they came under attack from rocket launchers and grenades.

But as a 30-strong platoon of Argylls responded to the SOS, the militia were getting reinforcements.

The men from the Stirlingshire-based regiment were forced to dig in and shoot back.

The Argylls were aided by a detachment of the Princess of Wales' Royal Regiment, who arrived at the scene in armoured Warrior vehicles.

More than 150 Iraqis were said to be involved in last week's battle. Military sources say the militiamen miscalculated the response from the original group of soldiers.

Last night, a source said: 'Morale is very good following this serious incident.

'The insurgents have been laying ambushes on Route Six one of the main roads between Basra and Baghdad for some time.

'Previously, the response from small British groups has been drive on. These militiamen were obviously expecting this to happen again.

'The enemy have been picking their targets, mainly two LandRovers with six to eight soldiers on board. With those odds, it is sometimes best to keep on going, but the attack was so sustained, the LandRovers stopped and returned fire.

'We now hope that these attacks on Route Six will stop, but we are taking nothing for granted.'

Intelligence gathered since the bayonet charge suggests it shocked the militia fighters, who expected the outnumbered Scots to flee.

The source added: 'The injuries received by our troops were shrapnel to the hand and shrapnel to the groin. Both of these casualties were as a result of rocket-propelled grenades fired at them.

'Both the injured guys are back with their units and doing fine.'

The Princess of Wales' Royal Regiment arrived on the scene in 37ton Warriors just as the Scots' ammo was getting low.

They found many Iraqi militia fleeing the bayonet charge.

Around 20 Iraqis who chose to stand and fight were killed by the troops of both regiments.

The Argylls' forebears formed The Thin Red Line which kept 25,000 Russians at bay at Balaclava during the Crimean War of the 1850s.

In 1967, Argylls commander Lieutenant-Colonel Colin Mitchell known as Mad Mitch stormed a rebel stronghold in Yemen.

Accompanied only by 15 pipers playing Scotland The Brave, he recaptured Crater Town, the commercial heart of Aden, which had been in enemy hands for two weeks.

The regiment has won 16 Victoria Crosses.


**************************************

I have heard that US troops in Iraq have also advanced with fixed bayonets, but don't have any details on that.  I am not aware that they charged across open ground in the same fashion as the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders did.  The last one I was aware of was US Marines in Korea, charging a hilltop with fixed bayonets.  If anyone is aware of such instances, please so advise.

This particularly piqued my interest, as I've recently finished Doug Nash's amazing book Hells Gate  The Battle for the Cherkassy Pocket  January to February 1944.  As the German soldiers were fighting their way out of their surrounded pocket, there were many instances where upwards of 4,000 soldiers charged a defensive line of Soviet tanks with only bayonets, led by officers on horseback, roaring "Hurrah" at the top of their lungs.  While they took many casualties, they would overwhelm the Soviet tankers by sheer force and desperate willpower.  As a result, the Russian tankers, without infantry to cover them, would generally retreat to cover and let the crazy German troops rush past.
 
                     Heinrich505
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stoffel
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« Reply #1 on: 28 February 2009, 22:53:44 »
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Actually, we do not use bajonets anymore.
The fal rifle had one, today we use the Buck fightingknife.
Big/thick ugly knife, compared to the small pointed metal pin on the FAL.
I will add some pictures of mine later.
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the_13th_redneck
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« Reply #2 on: 8 October 2009, 12:38:38 »
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No I know for a certainty that there are more than just these individuals who have engaged and killed the enemy with bayonets.
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Heinrich505
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« Reply #3 on: 9 October 2009, 04:59:35 »
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13th Redneck,
  I am sure that is the case for individuals in hand-to-hand combat within rooms or buildings.  If soldiers charge into a building to clear it, they may well run up against insurgents that are so close that it is easier to utilize the bayonet rather than try to fire off rounds, especially if they are engaged in a melee, and don't want to hit their own guys with friendly fire.

  I just wasn't aware of a situation where US troops lined up and charged, en masse', in a "classical" bayonet charge, as was the case with the Scots.  Let me know if you have something specific.  I'd like to read about it.

  It is interesting to see how such tactics have still managed to survive the test of time and the leaps of technology.  It will always be the grunt that takes and holds ground, usually through hand-to-hand combat.  That is as true today as it was from the time of the Romans and before.

                           Heinrich505
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stoffel
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« Reply #4 on: 9 October 2009, 07:58:04 »
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I have learned new ways to enter a building.
In short.
We advance with 3 man teams every all walking in a row close to eachother, all bend down a bit.
2nd and 3rd man have their left hand on the first mans shoulder.
They go in walking slow.
First man walking straight forward checking frontal sector, second man checking left and the third checking rigth.
If the first man gets hit the man behind him can pull him back and open fire .
Its a very effective way to enter.
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stoffel
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« Reply #5 on: 9 October 2009, 08:05:39 »
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To get back on the bayonet stuff.
here is a link with the knife we use today for our Diemaco rifle.
I have one (M9) personally, its a very impressive weapon.
When its fixed on your rifle its a very effective measure for crowdcontrol Knipoog

http://www.m9bayonet.com/buck-phrobis-m9.html
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Heinrich505
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« Reply #6 on: 10 October 2009, 07:08:59 »
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Stoffel,
  I can see why.  It is a good looking weapon.  The intimidation factor cannot be ignored.

  Question on your room entry.  Do all three enter almost at the same time?  I can see how that would be effective if the door was fairly wide, but most of the doorways in the US wouldn't allow for that maneuver.  Thus domestic police forces would utilize a rapid entry, in a criss-cross fashion, or a button-hook to each side, with a two man entry only.  If heavy body armor was utilized, that would make the entry even more cumbersome.  I do like the idea of pushing three through at one time, but it would take a lot of practice to make it a smooth maneuver.  Also, you have that "fatal funnel" to contend with.

                                         Heinrich505
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stoffel
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« Reply #7 on: 10 October 2009, 10:03:23 »
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No, we enter behind eachother, cautiously going forward.Takes about 5 seconds.
This is to avoid casualties.
The first man takes the fire( if fired upon)
The other two can pull him back and return fire in the same time.
IIts also possible to cover all directions.
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