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Author Topic: Death of a Marine  (Read 1473 times)
Rattler
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« on: 5 September 2009, 09:33:32 »
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By ALFRED de MONTESQUIOU and JULIE JACOBSON, Associated Press Writers
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DAHANEH, Afghanistan – The pomegranate grove looked ominous.

The U.S. patrol had a tip that Taliban fighters were lying in ambush, and a Marine had his weapon trained on the trees 70 yards away. "If you see anything move from there, light it up," Cpl. Braxton Russell told him.

Thirty seconds later, a salvo of gunfire and RPGs — rocket-propelled grenades — poured out of the grove. "Casualty! We've got a casualty!" someone shouted. A grenade had hit Lance Cpl. Joshua "Bernie" Bernard in the legs.

A Marine and son of a Marine, a devout Christian, Iraq war veteran and avid hiker, home-schooled in rural Maine, Bernard was about to become the next fatality in the deadliest month of the deadliest year since the U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan in 2001.

The troops of Golf Company, 2nd Battalion, 3rd Marines had been fighting for three days to wrest this town in southern Afghanistan from the Taliban who had ruled it for four years. As dusk approached on Friday, Aug. 14, things had quieted down. The Taliban seemed to have gone. Another day had passed in the long, hard slog for U.S. troops serving on the parched plains and mountains of Afghanistan, in a war that has steadily intensified.

Then, as the Marines were enjoying some downtime, reports of mortar, machine-gun and sniper fire sent them scrambling again. The 11 Americans and 10 Afghan soldiers edged their way into the town's abandoned bazaar. With them were Associated Press correspondent Alfred de Montesquiou, AP photographer Julie Jacobson and AP Television News cameraman Ken Teh.

Eyes scanning rooftops for gunmen and the ground for buried bombs, the patrol pushed past shops still smoldering from U.S. mortar shells, past Taliban posters on the walls exhorting the populace to fight the Americans. Bernard, his face daubed in gray and brown camouflage paint, was the point man.

A young Afghan in front of the family store showed the patrol a patch of upturned earth in a ditch. It was here that insurgents had fired their mortars a few minutes earlier.

"But don't say I told you, or they'll kill me," the man said.

As he spoke, the Marines got word of the ambush being readied nearby. Two Cobra helicopters circling overhead fired Hellfire missiles at a mortar position. The Marines weren't sure this had settled the matter with the Taliban. They pushed on.

Then they reached the pomegranate grove.

___

At first Jake Godby thought Bernard had stepped on an explosive device. Godby, a 24-year-old 2nd lieutenant from Fredericksburg, Va., quickly regrouped his men and directed the returning fire.

The squad found itself stuck under sustained and heavy fire with a wounded man on a narrow crossroad — buildings behind them, insurgents hidden in the orchard in front of them, and a large puddle from a broken water pump in the middle. Godby had the troops advance to the cover of a mud wall and an irrigation ditch. The orange streaks of bullets whizzing in every direction grew visible as the light faded.

"That's when I realized there was a casualty and saw the injured Marine, about 10 yards from where I'd stood," Jacobson would write in her journal. "For the second time in my life, I watched a Marine lose his. He was hit with the RPG which blew off one of his legs and badly mangled the other. ... I hadn't seen it happen, just heard the explosion. I hit the ground and lay as flat as I could and shot what I could of the scene."

Bernard lay on the ground, two Marines standing over him exposed, trying to help. A first tourniquet on Bernard's leg broke. A medic applied another.

"I can't breathe, I can't breathe," Bernard said. Troops crawling under the bullets dragged him to the MRAP, the mine-resistant armored vehicle that accompanied the patrol.

"The other guys kept telling him `Bernard, you're doing fine, you're doing fine. You're gonna make it. Stay with me Bernard!' He (a Marine) held Bernard's head in his hands when he seemed to go limp and tried to keep him awake. A couple more ran in with a stretcher," Jacobson recalled in the journal.

"Another RPG hit the mud wall on the other side of the street from where we were, about 5 yards away. It was a big BOOM, and I just lay my face in the dirt and everything went quiet for about 10 seconds. It was just silence like I was wearing noise-canceling headphones or like world peace had finally descended upon the earth. The air was white with sand. Then I started feeling the rubble fall down around me. And I thought, `Is this what it's like to be shell shocked? Am I all still here? I can't believe I am.'

"I was fine and surprised at how calm I was and that I could actually still hear."

___

The rocket-propelled grenade exploded in a powerful pinkish blast, lighting up the scene and briefly knocking out de Montesquiou and Staff Sgt. Alexander Ferguson. When Ferguson recovered, he helped haul Bernard inside the vehicle. Bernard was driven back to base some 500 yards from there, receiving first aid along the way. Minutes later, a helicopter evacuated him to Camp Leatherneck, the main Marine compound in southern Afghanistan. His vital signs were stable when he left.

At the ambush site, the fighting continued uninterrupted for 10 to 15 minutes. The men could see the grenades coming in at them, and even some of the machine gunners. They estimated they were facing six to eight fighters.

Adding to the confusion, an Afghan soldier with the troops fired his own grenade at the insurgents, but he hadn't checked whether anybody was close by. A Marine was knocked out by the back-blast.

Another grabbed the Afghan by the collar. "Once he stopped shooting, we were able to get control of the situation," Russell said.

Some Marines are uneasy patrolling with the Afghan National Army. For one thing, there's a language barrier. During the shootout at the orchard, the patrol's Afghan interpreter disappeared and took cover, leaving the Marines unable to coordinate their moves with the Afghan soldiers.

"They're not lacking courage, they're just lacking training right now," said Russell, 22, from Stafford, Va. "At least they were shooting in the right direction."

The fighting ebbed with nightfall. Godby and some of the Marines equipped with night vision glasses pushed deeper into the orchard, but the insurgents were gone. Intelligence pointed to three enemy dead, several Marines said, but it could not be confirmed.

That night, officers assembled the platoon in a darkened room of the run-down house where the Marines had camped after taking Dahaneh two days earlier. There the officers delivered the news: Bernard had died of a blood clot in his heart on the operating table. He was Golf Company's third fatality since arriving in Afghanistan in May.

Bernard was the 19th American to die in Afghanistan in August. Fifty-one Marines, soldiers and seamen lost their lives that month. Of the 739 Americans killed in and around Afghanistan since 2001, 151 died last year and 180 so far this year.

___

Down a rural dirt road in New Portland, western Maine, John and Sharon Bernard sat on their porch and talked about their son.

Joshua, they said, loved literature and showed early interest in the Bible and Christianity. "He had a very strong faith right from the beginning," his mother said.

His father described him as "humble, shy, unassuming — the very first to offer help." He didn't smoke or drink, and always opened the door for others. His main friends were his church group, whom he would visit when on leave, and his sister Katy, 20.

Bernard's father is a retired Marine 1st sergeant. Three weeks before the Aug. 14 ambush that killed his son, he had written to his congressman, Rep. Michael Michaud, expressing frustration at what he described as a change in the Afghanistan rules of engagement to one of "spare the civilians at all cost." He called this "disgraceful, immoral and fatal" to U.S. forces in combat.

Joshua loved videogames and snowboarding, and hiked parts of the Appalachian Trail with his father. He hoped to become a U.S. marshal.

"Service and personal honor," is how his father summarized his son.

___

Three days after Bernard's death, as his belongings were being packed for shipment to his family, Cpl. Joshua Jackson, his squad leader, was still referring to him in the present tense.

"He definitely doesn't hesitate," said Jackson, 23, from Copley, Ohio. "He's very good, he definitely has the nerves to do what he's needed to do."

He called Bernard "a true-heartedly very good guy ... probably one of the best guys I've known in my entire life."

The hardest part is "just wondering if there's something that I could have done different, or maybe prevented him from dying," Jackson said. "But that's something we've all got to deal with."

"I think it's got to do with being a Marine; you just carry on," said Godby. That night he got two hours of sleep. Before dawn, his platoon took part in a raid on a suspected Taliban stronghold.

Bernard was determined, his comrades said. That's why he was chosen as the squad's point man and navigator, moving at the front of his unit.

Lance Cpl. Jason Pignon, 22, from Thayer, Ill., was his close friend. They had been in the same platoon since 2007 when they joined "the Fleet," as Marines call the units preparing to deploy. They served together near Fallujah in Iraq in 2008, and again in Afghanistan.

During the firefight, Jacobson had wrestled with a question every war photographer faces: whether to offer to help save a life, or keep out of the way of the professionals and go on shooting pictures.

Some of Bernard's comrades asked to see the photos. In her journal she described them flipping through the images she had captured that day:

"They did stop when they came to that moment. But none of them complained or grew angry about it. They understood that it was what it was. They understand, despite that he was their friend, it was the reality of things."

___

It had all gone very quickly. It was late afternoon when the Taliban fired their first RPGs. It was dusk when the Marine was driven away in the armored vehicle. And it was night when the patrol returning to base saw the dark silhouette of the helicopter that flew him away.

Lance Cpl. Joshua "Bernie" Bernard was 21 years old.

___

Glenn Adams contributed to this report from New Portland, Maine.


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« Reply #1 on: 5 September 2009, 12:58:00 »
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Soldier´s life mate. Always a personal life under an uniform that makes all us look the same when we are so different under that clothing.

When comrades die you don´t ever can remember the uniform but the person, si his family will do.

Bu the way, past days Spanish troops were in fight with talibans. Twoo attacks, a Spanish sargent wounded, nothing serious. In secon attack 13 talibans were killed.


http://www.lavozdigital.es/cadiz/20090903/nacional/tropas-espanolas-repelen-ataque-200909031759.html  (in Spanish, no notice found in English, sorry)

Militares españoles repelen un ataque en Afganistán


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« Reply #2 on: 5 September 2009, 20:08:33 »
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I read this, and I am sure, Spain and other UN mandated troops need to send *a lot* more of forces out (45.000 minimum were requested by the overall US commander three days ago, and personally, I think more is needed, or leave...).

JFDR: Personally I do not see calling Taliban fighters that ambush a Spanish coy "terrorists" (as done in the vid Solideo posted), they are the enemy, but nothing else. ETA are terrorists, IRA are terrorists, but those are an army fighting (whether you understand/like their motives or not) for their goals with the means they have, and: They deserve (how hard I might find it myself to say so) soldiers respect.

What is more, if we do not understand they understand themselves as army, we will lose the war because we dont treat them the way they should be treated: Enemy yes, but: *NOT* terrorists. Again, JFDR, in their position I probalbly would do the same (ambush) and feel proud about it, as would you guys.

OTOH, I wanted to present you with the footage and photos of Julie Jacobson that were accompanying the event, well done, and with shaking hands (visibly):

A lady and excellent photograper I have met in my time as photo journalist (and featured as author in above article), but, as Mr. Gates voiced "outrage" on the stuff, it has been censored by youtube (we need to get rid of youtube´s censorship, its getting a PITA, really), only visible through third channels:

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/julie-jacobson-photo-scandal-over-released-shot-dying-marine

Might be even this got censored by now, what planet are we living on, please? Show 100 dead Talibans, but not one Marine in trouble? I have seen the "outrage" pic and the whole vid, nothing wrong with it at all, "Soldiers Life" as Solideo put it correctly...

Outraged myself,

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« Reply #3 on: 5 September 2009, 20:33:32 »
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(Gosh, sorry about above post, sometimes I get carried away and do not know who is posting, ignore the TA author bit):

Feel free and invited to voice your thoughts here: http://my.nowpublic.com/world/julie-jacobson-photo-scandal-over-released-shot-dying-marine#comment-442313

From my POV so far only a bunch of hypocrites have voiced their thoughts, again I am going hysteric.

R.IP (and all my heartfelt thoughts with the family)-

Rattler

P.S.: Finally found one of the pix online, it is not the "scandal" one, but it is not very different either (scandal one has less blood) R.

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« Reply #4 on: 6 September 2009, 11:41:02 »
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JFDR: Personally I do not see calling Taliban fighters that ambush a Spanish coy "terrorists" (as done in the vid Solideo posted), they are the enemy, but nothing else. ETA are terrorists, IRA are terrorists, but those are an army fighting (whether you understand/like their motives or not) for their goals with the means they have, and: They deserve (how hard I might find it myself to say so) soldiers respect.

.... in their position I probalbly would do the same (ambush) and feel proud about it, as would you guys.



I agree that. I would exactly the same than them in their situation...but i´ll try to do it better. Afghanistan has been always in war, not even the big red army could with them. They will fight to death, in their way until UN countries deicide it´s not solutionable question and leave the country with their internal fighting again.

Same in Iraq... (although not under UN support). Everybody there can be an enemy. Occupying territories is just spending LIFES, and money. Afghan problems should be repaired by themselves. If there is a questionable terms of abuse from one part, just train them and support them with diplomacy and weaponry.

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« Reply #5 on: 6 September 2009, 13:10:55 »
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Wow, never would have expected these kind of discussions triggered by what I see is a sensible and informative article, but here goes (people do obviously not check that they are sending their mails to the wrong person, and they do not understand that a photographer takes pictures, not publishes them), some interesting comments also:

http://juliejacobson.blogspot.com/

Personally I go with the comment of one reader:

Quote
Miss Jacobson,

I agree with you, she is a hero. She was there, saw horrific things happening, and was courageous enough to document those things.

I find it necessary to come to your defense from the anonymous blogger who posted 9/5/09 @9:46 am. I am a veteran. My husband was also a veteran. If my children were able, they would be there right now too. If this would be how they met their end, I would never dream of objecting to this image being used. Isn't the whole idea of this war to promote freedoms for everyone? That's what the government has been telling us for years. So how could I be so selfish and refuse to let the world see exactly the toll on my child, as well as on those in his outfit was? We are doing our service members a grave disservice by NOT letting those at home see what is happening to our kids. We send them off all shiny and fresh scrubbed and people still continue to be horrified by the damage (physical and mental) they come home with.

Figure it out, folks, because it can not work both ways. Protest if you want to....against the war itself, against the government and the administration. Espouse those very same actions if you want. Pick a side and stick to it, but please do not take it out on our best and brightest who have volunteered to go and put their ass on the line for our way of life. Don't diminish the sacrifices they are making by calling this type of image unAmerican and expoitive.


So sad, really, many ex mil guys support the article and even the publishing of the photos: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/09/04/us/AP-Afghan-Death-AP-Photo.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=joshua%20m.%20bermard&st=cse

What is wrong with the US American public? First they send their guys there, but then they do not want to know about what they asked them to do and how?

Un-American, unpatriotic?

Hipocrites.

Rattler
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« Reply #6 on: 6 September 2009, 13:37:56 »
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Thats not only in America, same here.

In my opinion there are 2 phases before we send troops to a foreign country.

A) The government studies the task and the country and  makes a judgement for the risks of the troops.

People can react and try to infuence the decision by the government by discussing the plans in the media or through their own political party.
This is the part where you can act against such a decision.

B) The final decision to send troops is made.

Now there is no more room to act against it or to demonstrate against the decision.
If you do than:
You do not stand behind the fighting men and women who needs your support!
You give the enemy a "valid" reason to attack our troops and indirect give the enmy a chance to let the people in that country see your forces are enemies of the population.
You have no knowledge about the general thinking of terrorists.
And worse, you stick a knive into the back of your fellow soldiers fighting indirectly for your safety as well.

Henk
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« Reply #7 on: 6 September 2009, 14:31:54 »
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What I find really disturbing about this whole (preposterous) discussion is the double standard that is applied and the (auto) censorship that goes with it:

Maybe you remember Neda Sultan, or Nick Berg? And the vids associated with them?

I have not heard anybody complain about showing Neda actually dying (in the current case the Marine died later in hospital, so it does *not* show him dying), quite to the contrary, everybody was applauding the vid published as it "whoed what really was going on"...

Now, do a google search on Neda Sultan or Nick Berg, and you will come up with a lot of links, incl. the full videos on youtube: http://www.examiner.com/x-14795-SLO-Headlines-Examiner~y2009m6d23-Neda-Agha-Sultan-video , or http://www.paguito.com/portal/nick_berg_video.html

Try the same google on Josuah Bernard....: Yesterday it gave you... zilch!

Today some people have taken it up (like we) to discuss and publish it, but in all the major news services he is inexistant (try CNN for example, he is not even mentioned in the Afghanistan page: http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2009/afghanistan.war/index.html).

Disturbing, if you ask me: If we report one death, we can report the other also (and we should).

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« Reply #8 on: 6 September 2009, 14:58:28 »
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As a brother to this fallen Marine, my sincerest condolences to his family in this time of grief. Semper Fidelis!

I suspect the reason the US govt is so afraid of this type of picture being published, is because they fear the public will turn against the war, much as they did when the Vietnam War was brought into their living rooms by the media. Personally, I am for letting the public know what the toll of their decisions are. For too long now, the only Americans who know the toll, are the families of those maimed or killed and the vets who have seen war before and know first hand what price shall be paid. For 8 years we were denied the view of our returning fallen heroes for the very same reason. Shame on America I say, for in hiding their sacrifice, you devalue it.

Jody
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« Reply #9 on: 6 September 2009, 17:12:00 »
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As a brother to this fallen Marine, my sincerest condolences to his family in this time of grief. Semper Fidelis!

I suspect the reason the US govt is so afraid of this type of picture being published, is because they fear the public will turn against the war, much as they did when the Vietnam War was brought into their living rooms by the media. Personally, I am for letting the public know what the toll of their decisions are. For too long now, the only Americans who know the toll, are the families of those maimed or killed and the vets who have seen war before and know first hand what price shall be paid. For 8 years we were denied the view of our returning fallen heroes for the very same reason. Shame on America I say, for in hiding their sacrifice, you devalue it.

Jody


Good reasoning. Me as Legion veteran understand your point of view, when we are not in war they don´t see the work we do day to day to be prepared, public see us (in Spain) just like a lot of paid workers than do nothing, but they don´t see our daily sacrifice and the most important the sacrifice we are offered to give including our lives.

When public deicide to send us they must know what we do ALL, here most of time has been hidden to public opinion, but since we left Iraq (by public pressure and new government) and are in Afghanistan we are doing just the same, convoys and shooting against attack.

Today in the news was reported than one more spanish soldier (I think marine( had been wounded by a shoot in leg) , now our antiwar government replies that we are increasing our forces to 1000 soldiers there...I don´t understand why this government won because of their promise to keep back our troops from Iraq after the 100 killed in terrorist acts in trains in Madrid and now is acting increasing troops in a war quite similar to Iraq one (different sects).

Public must now ALL about what happens there, two days ago (we have sufferd five attacks in this past days) was noticed that we had kill 13 Afghans...but I live by Spanish Legion Brigade, many of y friends have been there and we have been killing Afghans long time ago in all kind of actions...so this is not new...public must know we are not spreadind only sandwiches, but also plumb, people must know that´s a war and that war is full of cruelty, etc, etc.

I send my condolences to all those suffering families of all fallen, all countries that give their lives following instructions of their ciuntries (public). Sufferind soes not stop when you die, then stops yours, but begins for all who loved you.

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« Reply #10 on: 6 September 2009, 17:49:58 »
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As a brother to this fallen Marine, my sincerest condolences to his family in this time of grief. Semper Fidelis!

I suspect the reason the US govt is so afraid of this type of picture being published, is because they fear the public will turn against the war, much as they did when the Vietnam War was brought into their living rooms by the media. Personally, I am for letting the public know what the toll of their decisions are. For too long now, the only Americans who know the toll, are the families of those maimed or killed and the vets who have seen war before and know first hand what price shall be paid. For 8 years we were denied the view of our returning fallen heroes for the very same reason. Shame on America I say, for in hiding their sacrifice, you devalue it.

Jody


You do realize that scenes of D-Day and Tarawa and Iwo Jima were not shown on the news reels to the public until well after the events happened.  The American public was much more committed to the war effort during WW2 but I suspect they might have been more in favor of a negotiated settlement if they had been bombarded by war footage.

It's all well and good to hyperventilate about the public's right to know but the family of the Marine that was killed asked that the photo not be published by the NY Times, and Sec Def Gates asked the Times not to publish it but they refused both requests.

Obama was elected by a public that knew his stated position on Afghanistan.  That was it was worth fighting and preventing the Taliban from taking over again.  That's a view shared by Senator McCain. 

I think the objection was the public display of a dying American service man.  That's understandable to me.  It's certainly not "shameful" or hypocritical".
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« Reply #11 on: 6 September 2009, 19:59:15 »
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This morning the Dutch forces suffered their 20th casualty in Afghanistan.

26 year old corporal Kevin van de Rijdt was killed in a firefight with Talibanfighters.
This corporal was a member of our elite Commandotroops.

A sad loss of a brave soldier.
From here my condoleances to his parents, his family and his friends.

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« Reply #12 on: 6 September 2009, 21:48:50 »
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Tanker sez:
Quote
I think the objection was the public display of a dying American service man.  That's understandable to me.  It's certainly not "shameful" or hypocritical".


I do not disagree with your point. I disagree with the attempt by the govt to hide the cost of war by denying access to the returning flag draped coffins of those who gave all. Until such time as they are repatriated with their families, they are anonymous American Patriots and belong to all of us, deserving of more than a late night flight back into the US, and no recognition of their sacrifice made on our behalf. For too long the govt has sanitized the cost of war, by severely restricting the media, hiding the dead, lowballing the wounded and keeping the monetary costs out of the budget. Freedom isn't Free and these men & women are proof of that truth. I believe there are far to many apathetic, content to be uninformed Americans, that need to be reminded of the facts.

As for the war in Afghanistan, I supported it from day one and still do. If we were to pull out, it would only be a matter of time before the Taliban returned to power and the terror training camps would be reopened. Requiring of us, yet another return to fight the same fight, and to once again, pay the high price for our ignorance. No, let us do the job correctly, now that we have finally started getting out of that sinkhole Iraq, that the previous administration lied/led us into, which cost us 6 years of progress in Afghanistan. Had we finished the job when we first got there, we would not be in the dire straights that we now find ourselves in. Whose bright idea was it to fight a two front war anyway? (damn idiot, bastard ChickenHawks)

To any who may take objection to my opinion, remember...with my opinion and a couple of dollars/euros, you might be able to buy a cup of coffee.

J





 
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« Reply #13 on: 6 September 2009, 22:26:40 »
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Coffee is cheaper here than a couple of euros  iconclap.

Anyway I still think that kind of wars whre confrontated parts are different sect in same territory never end and never will do. You can keep peace like we do in old Jugoslavija, where once they had clear of the international actions they decided to asume it thinking in a near future. But those countries dont live the European or American way of life. We all have seen their progress.

They are thinking like that for generations and will do forever. Staying there will only increase the fallen rates. About terrorism support in that zone...it´s over almost all muslim zones, they simply use religion to have their sharia, their holy war. There will be terrorist everywhere there are radical muslims. We have the phantom of Iraq so near. It´`s just the same in Afghanistan, and would be in Pakistan...or wherever.

Here I put my couple $ on the table.
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« Reply #14 on: 7 September 2009, 06:53:53 »
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The picture shows an objective fact that happened. fine.  The decision to print that photo was not an objective one however.  The photo evokes certain images, tends to make the viewer feel a certain way.  The media claim to be objective but they have an agenda (we all do.)
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FACman
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« Reply #15 on: 7 September 2009, 15:32:38 »
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Stoffel sez:
Quote
Now there is no more room to act against it or to demonstrate against the decision.
If you do than:
You do not stand behind the fighting men and women who needs your support!
You give the enemy a "valid" reason to attack our troops and indirect give the enmy a chance to let the people in that country see your forces are enemies of the population.
You have no knowledge about the general thinking of terrorists.
And worse, you stick a knive into the back of your fellow soldiers fighting indirectly for your safety as well.


I could not disagree with you more. As a free man of conscience, it is my duty to speak out when my country is on a path I disagree with. Had the German people done so before WW2, world history would be different. When my country invaded Iraq, I spoke out against it because I saw through the propaganda the administration was spewing. As a Marine fighting in Vietnam, I did not question the right of the anti war protesters to speak their minds. Hell, I had sworn to uphold the Constitution which guaranteed them the right to do so. I in no way felt betrayed by their exercise of those rights. I only felt betrayed by those who did not recognize the sacrifice and service to our country that the returning vets had performed. I am extremely grateful that today's vets do not experience that same betrayal. That is one lesson America surely learned from the Vietnam experience.

In short, there is a difference between supporting our troops and supporting the policy that sends them into harms way, I believe the American fighting man understands and respects the distinction, as it is as American as the Constitution they defend.
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Rattler
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« Reply #16 on: 11 September 2009, 15:46:50 »
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In short, there is a difference between supporting our troops and supporting the policy that sends them into harms way, I believe the American fighting man understands and respects the distinction, as it is as American as the Constitution they defend.


Well, and I at least *hope* so (if you look at some of the discussions about the same theme on the net in other mil forums, it makes you sad how little people understand... But then, there always has been a huge difference between "Nation Patriots" and "Consitution Patriots"...).

I have been pondering a long article for the last days (as 8 yrs soldier and 25+ years photo journalist I feel I can capture both sides emphasis) but won´t be able to actually write it before weekend. Also, the sheer hate and disrespect so many people voice has me distracted and needs further analysis, IMHO, before I can let loose (but I have the basic idea the people that voice it would a) never be there and b) are caught in some sort of "taboo" and are reacting to see it broken by an "outsider").

For the moment the discussion has heated up some more, as one British reporter (Stephen Farrell) who worked for NYT was rescued by Brit SOF from a hostage situation, and an Afghan reporter, his translator and one SOF soldier were killed in the act (http://www.military-quotes.com/forum/ap-attack-rescue-reporter-t78162.html); again, the same hate and personal disrespect spew out of so many people when commenting the ops...

I will post his personal take - which I find, again, as so many articles by him - truly heart touching in a different thread and link to it later from here in an "edit".

EDIT: The promised Stephen Farrell article: http://www.warandtactics.com/smf/afghanistan-476/rescue-of-a-reporter/msg6830/#msg6830

These things *have* to be discussed, IMHO.

Rattler
« Last Edit: 11 September 2009, 16:55:04 by Rattler » Logged

"War does not determine who is right, war determines who is left...": The Rattler Way Of Life (thanks! to Solideo)... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9v3Vyr5o2Q
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