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Author Topic: Aerial equipment: videos  (Read 10945 times)
Koen
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« on: 17 October 2010, 17:33:03 »
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Chinook Pilot takes a headshot... then flies the thing home


Battlefield Evacuation of Private Chris Gray


CH-47 Chinook Helicopter RNLAF.
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« Reply #1 on: 17 October 2010, 20:17:21 »
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My Chinook experience, from close-by (under one km, the helo dropped right in front of me on the motorway when I was working in HD and managed a weekend trip to see the spectacle) in 1982 (2nd link is hard to read if your concentration span is not accustomed to legal jumbo-mumbo or you are not accustomed to look for the right bits, but I recommend everybody naval or air doing himself the favour) includes another SEP 11 tradegy, 46 dead:

http://www.stripes.com/news/in-mannheim-victims-families-remember-another-9-11-tragedy-1.11542

http://openjurist.org/769/f2d/115/air-crash-disaster-at-mannheim-germany-on-91182-schoenborn-v-boeing-company-boeing-company

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On the date that the accident occurred. Helicopter 22292 was carrying a number of British, French, and German parachutists who planned to jump when the helicopter reached an altitude of 12,000 feet. At approximately 10,500 feet, the helicopter began to descend and notified ground control that it was returning for landing. The helicopter's pilot stated that he had heard a noise from the rear of the craft and that a flicker had been observed on the master caution panel. At between 800 and 1,000 feet, pieces of the helicopter then began to fall, including the aft (rear) rotor blades, followed by the aft transmission. The helicopter then turned 180 degrees, lost airspeed and fell vertically. It exploded and burned on impact.



Nobody, incl. myself, understood why not at least the parachuters exited. CRM mishap? I guess so. One guy was seen (by me also) leaving but his chute did not open.

My saddest day after Ramstein: 78 dead. 500 severly burnt (of which around one hundred died within a month after). 1500+ injured;
Ramstein Airshow Tragedy Reportage (Part 2/2)
where I was not present, but did my thesis with a photo reportage two years later on the families, probably the most severe tragedy airwise that had struck our nation; air shows prohibited since then in Germany...

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The Ramstein airshow disaster was one of the world's deadliest airshow disasters. It took place in front of an audience of about 300,000 people on August 28, 1988, in Ramstein, state of Rheinland-Pfalz, West Germany, near the city of Kaiserslautern at the U.S. Ramstein Air Base airshow Flugtag '88. Sixty-seven spectators and three pilots died, and 346 spectators sustained serious injuries in the resulting explosion and fire.



Rattler
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"Smile, tomorrow will be worse!"  Murphy
Koen
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« Reply #2 on: 20 October 2010, 20:43:59 »
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Quote
My Chinook experience, from close-by (under one km, the helo dropped right in front of me on the motorway when I was working in HD and managed a weekend trip to see the spectacle) in 1982 (2nd link is hard to read if your concentration span is not accustomed to legal jumbo-mumbo or you are not accustomed to look for the right bits, but I recommend everybody naval or air doing himself the favour) includes another SEP 11 tradegy, 46 dead:

http://www.stripes.com/news/in-mannheim-victims-families-remember-another-9-11-tragedy-1.11542

http://openjurist.org/769/f2d/115/air-crash-disaster-at-mannheim-germany-on-91182-schoenborn-v-boeing-company-boeing-company


didn't know...must be frightening to witness this kind of events

RAF Harrier Crash KANDAHAR, May '09

Kandahar 2009 May 15
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The Harrier pilot was forced to eject at Kandahar airfield

A British jet pilot has been injured after ejecting from his aircraft before it crashed in Afghanistan.

The Ministry of Defence (MoD) said the Harrier pilot was forced to eject while landing at Kandahar airfield.

The RAF pilot is believed to have suffered minor injuries. The MoD said there was no suggestion the incident was caused by enemy action.

The cause of the crash is not known but it is thought the Harrier's undercarriage may have failed to lower.

The aircraft was badly damaged in the crash at about 1030 local time but no-one else was injured, the MoD spokesman said.

He said: "Emergency services have been called to the scene and are assessing the damage."

The pilot is based at RAF Cottesmore in Rutland.

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FACman
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« Reply #3 on: 21 October 2010, 18:02:23 »
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Looks like the pilot was willing to ride his bird to a stop, but as soon as the flames engulfed the canopy, he left immediately. Discretion being all his. Now my question is, if he had an indicator light telling him his undercarriage wasnt deployed, why didnt he wait until the ground crew could gather some mattresses?   whistle
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Koen
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« Reply #4 on: 21 October 2010, 18:05:27 »
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Looks like the pilot was willing to ride his bird to a stop, but as soon as the flames engulfed the canopy, he left immediately. Discretion being all his. Now my question is, if he had an indicator light telling him his undercarriage wasnt deployed, why didnt he wait until the ground crew could gather some mattresses?   whistle


 Brede lach gather some mattresses?  hihi

I see you've been following our posts lately.....  smallclap
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Rattler
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« Reply #5 on: 21 October 2010, 23:27:33 »
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FACMan, Koen:

GR-7 as most a/c yes gives you an indicator when your undercarriage is not deployed, but his *was*... whatever conclusions you draw from it (I have mine), the official MAAS (Military Aircraft Accident Summary, British military version of NTSC reports) is not out yet, and we will have to wait for the end of investigation (usually around 24 month, maybe more).

Some things I can (every Harrier fan was on top of this all the time) apport is that, looking at and studying the video:

- UC had deployed, nothing strange to be seen in the vid

- for whatever reason (here is the intersting part!) UC collapsed (actually only nose wheel, after looking at the vid 50+ times rest got ripped off) *after* having deployed and on TD

- Power Plants seemed to be producing sufficient power estimating by aircraft speed - the rate of descent appears to be way out of limits established, and seem to be the critical component in this mishap (DISCLAIMER FOR ALL MY POST: ...but I cannot tell what made a/c descend so rapidly, this is not an accident investigation report, just some observations and wild speculations by a non-expert looking at the vid and to be taken as such)

- Nozzles were neutral until PIC approached (reportedly, not seen in the vid, personally I doubt it) a civil a/c with SLF onboard (probably reports are referring to the Starlifter in the bkgnd), he then (skidding along a long way already along the RWY) decided to put them into "reverse"

- Nozzles turned forward when PIC initiated the "nozzle reverse" breaking maneuver, which (of course ?) made for a fireball around the cockpit canopy, which then again made him taking ejection decision.

- A/c nose pitching up with the horizontal stabilizer being set to a nose down position...? Yes? Looks like... Could mean (and actually looks more like it every time I look at the vid) an avoidable stall (Pilot Error!), but then again, my disclaimers from above remain in place...

- PIC got out during a phase where the a/c was still moving, so on opening chute he avoided the risk of landing in the flames; I personally am not sure that was the right decision (drill is to eject at a/c stop IIRC), but, of course, it is well comprehendible and sure made it more secure to save his life, probably MAAS will call it correct ejection decision

- PIC even managed to inflate his LSJ (seen on antoher vid with close-up) - this is not automatic as some ppl seem to think as opposed to PSP lowering which indeed is auto. Thanks for this PIC-favorable end to Misters Martin and Baker, zero height ejections are always a nail raising thingy...

- a/c crashed because of hard impact - due to whatever reason -,  the investigation board will have to establish the details and the cause

- I am sure the cockpit smelled of wee after ejection  whistle

Kudos to the fire brigade who approached a burning and (seemingly) fully armed a/c when no life had to be saved.

Anyway, a nice pic from the actual ejection:



To sum it up with Greg Lake (and to address Koens - gold covered? - mattress comment):

Greg Lake - Lucky Man


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« Reply #6 on: 21 October 2010, 23:42:50 »
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A very appropriate tune to go with the story, in this case his white steed was a Harrier.
I also thought his descent a bit harsh, but as you said, we have no idea what kind of malfunction lay behind that (pilot/mechanical). I noticed an engine power increase at one point early in the video, as though he was trying to slow his descent via his ducts, but also as you say, just an untrained observer here. I was wondering about the ejection protocols, thanks for bringing it up. I would think that if he was fuel heavy at the event, a moving ejection would make for a slightly safer chance of deploying away from the potentially explosive burning AC. We Grunts dont get much flight protocol training, so take my twist on the story with a liberal shot of your favorite breathtaker...
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Rattler
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« Reply #7 on: 22 October 2010, 00:04:40 »
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Fuel heaviness is a question here, if indeed as cited in so many (intitial) reports the crash took place right after TO (when he had no time to burn fuel or jettison ordnance), and if indeed he was getting out at max TOW, he might indeed have exceeded MLW in this mishap, here the data of the US version AV8B (slightly less capable than the British GR7):

GR7,  Max Takeoff Weight (horizontal):       31,000 lb (= 14.061 kg)
AV8B, Maximum Landing Weight (hoizontal)    11.340 kg

As Impulse=Mass x Acceleration, 2.6 metric tons would have indeed a great impact on the UC at TD with all MLW limits surpassed (I have no clue on what safety margin factors - standard should be 1.3 - Harriers UC are constructed), stall or not.

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Robert Hilton
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« Reply #8 on: 24 October 2010, 19:16:55 »
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What I see on the film is that he came in too hot, realised at the last moment and tried to correct. That's when it seemed to stall.
I'll dig around for more info
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