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Author Topic: 12th SS Pz Div "Maxi": in development: updated version available on page 2!!!  (Read 11753 times)
Koen
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« on: 29 January 2009, 21:31:40 »
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Without going for a FULL OOB:

in what formation did they counter-attack?

using Pz IV's and StuG's?

plenty of HT's?

yes...it's for a CM CMAK battle  Brede lach

arty 81mm?
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Koen
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« Reply #1 on: 30 January 2009, 15:34:11 »
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source: http://home.att.net/~SSPzHJ/Org.html

The authorized strength SS-Panzerregiment 12 consisted of 185 Panzers.

81 Panzerkampfwagen Vs, or Panthers, were allocated to I Abteilung.

101 Panzerkampfwagen IVs were allocated to II Abteilung.
II Abteilungs actual organization differed markedly from the "official" structure. Instead of 4 Kompanies with 22 Panzers in each Kompanie, there was 5 Kompanien with 17 Panzers per Kompanie.

II Abteilungs Flakzug differed from the norm as well. Instead of the authorized Platoon equipped with six 2 cm Flak guns, it was equipped with three 2 cm four barreled guns placed on the chasis of the Pzkw IV. This was the prototype for the "Wirblewind", SS-Hauptscharführer Karl Wilhelm Krause, commander of the Abteilungs Flakzug, was the one who suggested the idea.

**********************

The structure of SS-Panzerdivision "Hitlerjugend's" Pz.Gren.Rgt's differed in one main aspect from the usual.
Both Rgts recieved an additional Kompanie, number 15, which was equipped with Volkswagens and considered a Aufklärungskompanie. The remaining structure was normal for late war SS-Panzerdivisions.

13 Kompanie was the heavy infantry gun Kompanie. It was equipped with 6 sIG 33 150mm (self proppelled) Artillerie pieces.
14 Kompanie was the Flak Kompanie, equipped with 12 20mm Flak pieces.
16 Kompanie was the Pionier Kompanie. Despite the moniker "Panzer-Grenadier", only one bataillon was truly gepanzert (armoured): III./SS-Panzergrenadierregiment 26, equipped with SPW's.
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« Reply #2 on: 30 January 2009, 15:47:24 »
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..."Panzer-Grenadier"... -snip- ...only one bataillon was truly gepanzert (armoured)...


The designation "Panzergrenadier" bears no implicit meaning of being "gepanzert (armored)", it just means they go with (and so are counted as part of) armored forces, "Grenadier" being the main part of the word. Infantry that go with/in front/behind armored forces.

Nowadays they go in APCs (practically the majority still running around in M113)

Rattler
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« Reply #3 on: 30 January 2009, 15:49:59 »
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Quote
Despite the moniker "Panzer-Grenadier", only one bataillon was truly gepanzert (armoured): III./SS-Panzergrenadierregiment 26, equipped with SPW's.


same source
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Koen
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« Reply #4 on: 30 January 2009, 20:30:13 »
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My selection in CMAK

SS-Panzergrenadierregiment 25

3 Battalions of PzGren's

I. Battalion with 4 Kompanies, 3 PzGren's and 1 with the arty spotter

II. Battalion with 4 Kompanies, 3 PzGren's and 1 with the arty spotter

III. Battalion with 4 Kompanies, 3 PzGren's and 1 with the arty spotter
this battalion is armoured/gepanzert
+ 1 company Flak 20mm's representing 14. Kompanie Bt.III
+ 1 company sIG 33 150mm Grille (2 platoons of 3) representing 13. Kompanie Bt.III
+ 1 company of Pioniere representing 16. Kompanie Bt.III.
+ 1 company of aufklärungs truppen in VW's representing 15. Kompanie Bt.III
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Koen
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« Reply #5 on: 31 January 2009, 13:35:35 »
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.

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Koen
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« Reply #6 on: 31 January 2009, 13:39:58 »
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you may always help me with:

1. telling me who were their opponents in their first clash
2. SS Pz Regt 12 had 2 Abteilungen, Ist with 81 PzV and IInd with 101 Pz IV. Did they operated together?
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« Reply #7 on: 31 January 2009, 16:24:30 »
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According to "Panzer" Meyer's memoirs:

21 Panzer-Division engaged the 6th Airborne Div (UK) that had established a bridgehead over the Orne. SS-Panzer-grenadier-Regiment 25 went on a recon mission and found the flank of an UK armored formation (they didn't which one then). The tanks were torn to shred near Franquville shortly after.

Stricly speaking, this doesn't answer your question of which unit, but it can be of use... But hey, the first unit that really engaged first in this campaign was definitively the 8th Air Force Knipoog
« Last Edit: 31 January 2009, 16:46:41 by bongotastic » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: 31 January 2009, 19:36:29 »
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well, I want it to be semi-historical so I need to know UK/US/Canadian?
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« Reply #9 on: 31 January 2009, 20:00:35 »
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The encounter with Tanks was more than likely against UK troops. The earlier attack on the 21 PD was from AT guns from the 6th Airborne (UK). There were 3 Canadian and 3 Brits divisions around, however.

 
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« Reply #10 on: 31 January 2009, 20:23:37 »
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Quote
In their first engagement with the Canadians, the HJ Division destroyed 28 Canadian tanks while losing only 6 soldiers for their efforts.

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« Reply #11 on: 1 February 2009, 00:06:28 »
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On 7 June, SS-Standartenführer Kurt Meyer's ("Panzermeyer") SS-Panzergrenadier-Regiment 25, along with the 2nd Battalion of SS-Obersturmbannfuhrer Max Wünsche's SS-Panzer-Regiment 12, were supported by artillery and ordered to crush advancing Canadian infantry and armour and drive through to the coast, still only a few miles away. In Meyer's words they were to "throw the little fish into the sea"

SS-Panzergrenadier Regiment 25 supported by 50 Panzer IV observed an allied tank unit forming up west of Douvres and then advanced towards Authis from the direction of Buron waiting in ambush they allowed the tanks to move forward without firing a shot in Meyer's own words "The battalion maintained excellent fire discipline". The advancing tanks which were moveing across the front and were hit in their unprotected flank by SS-Panzer regiment 12 and the attack began. The III./SS-Panzergrenadier 25 had just reached Authie, when the I & II Battalion's SS-Panzergrenadier Regiment 25 began to attack advancing deep into the Canadian flank capturing Authie and Franqueville with Contest and Buron following the attack totally suprised the Canadians. The attack by the 12th SS Panzer Division Hitlerjugend was supposed to have been supported by the 21 Panzer Division which was still at Couvre as a result the right flank was open and being probed by Canadian tanks, which were destroyed by the anti-tank platoon of the I/SS Panzergrenadier 25. During these attacks the HJ had captured about 150 prisoners from the North Nova Scotia Highlanders and crews from the 27th Tank Regiment (Sherbrooke Fusiliers). According to Lieteutenant Colonel Mel Gordon the 27th Tank Regiment had lost 28 Sherman's and the North Nova Scotia Highlanders 245 men.


Quote
The Sherbrooke Fusilier Regiment lost at least 25 Sherman tanks to the Panzer IV tanks and anti tank guns of 12th SS in the opening minutes of the counterattack. The 12th SS managed to push the portion of the Canadian spearhead they attacked back two miles but the remaining North Nova Scotia Highlanders halted the 25th regiment and established a defence.


so it seems that it will be Pz IV's in my battle.

opponents in the battle will be the Canadians.
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« Reply #12 on: 5 February 2009, 22:14:26 »
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in dutch, will translate later

duitsers stonden op 7 juni in Evrecy

recon: Carpiquet, Rots en Buron vrij
Les Buissons bezet door North Novia Scotie Highlanders

2de fase:
25. SS-Panzergrenadier-Regiment I. Bataillon onder bevel van SS-Sturmbannführer Hans Waldmüller, samen met de 16. Pionier-Kompanie (SS-Obersturmführer Werner) namen posities rond Epron en la Folie

II Bt. bij St-Contest en Bitot olv Hans Scappini

III Bt. aan de weg tussen Caen en Bayeux, ZO van Franqueville, olv Karl-Heinz Milius

Abbaye d'Ardenne, 2 kerktorens, HQ voor Max Wunsche 12SS Pz Regt & Karl Bartling IIIBt. 12SS Pz arty regt

12SS PZ Regt Bt.II eerst gearriveeerd olv Karl-Heinz Prinz met 5 kompanien Pz IV's

5. Kompanie werd ingedeeld bij het III. Bataillon van het 25. SS-Panzergrenadier-Regiment in de buurt van Franqueville, 9 Komp in reserve
6. en 7. Kompanie werden aan beide zijden van de abdij gepositioneerd.
8. Kompanie werd naar het gebied van het I. Bataillon van het 25. SS-Panzergrenadier-Regiment (Epron) gestuurd.
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Koen
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« Reply #13 on: 12 February 2009, 21:03:25 »
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Stoffel & myself have worked out a playable historical OOB.

the map is in my professional hands [caugh caugh] and will be in the area of

Franqueville-Authie-Buron-Les Buisson
to Carpiquet-Combes en Plaine
Abbaye des Ardennes-Cussy-St Contest-Epron
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Koen
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« Reply #14 on: 15 February 2009, 18:58:51 »
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at the same time we are building a smaller scenario based on an older Normandy map of mine.

wanna have a peak at the BIG map? 12SS Pz Div attacks
wanna have a peak at the small scenario? 12SS mini
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« Reply #15 on: 13 July 2009, 06:40:05 »
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So I loaded this up vs the AI on +3 with me as the Allies.

It's by far the largest I've ever played one to date, not to mention the forces.

So far no real comments on the map as I like the amount of cover to give my armor since my record with them so far is .... well terrible.


Around Franqueville, I split my company up with two platoons to flank the town on either side to hit it from three sides (not really possible now  doh3).






My forces in Buron are advancing on Authie (mainly with company E) while D stays behind for emergency purposes.


The sherman line in the middle spotted a pride of cats and engaged immediately (the white smoke), and exchanged plenty of rounds. Sadly it's a one way street and the cats have better aim than my tanks so far.




At Cambes En Plaine, I'm destroying the bridges to protect my flank (since an AT gun and a plt. were facing the bridge abd not to mention the lack of info on Epron) gave me the idea I should do that. I've moved one company to watch the bridges till they blow. I'm sending two companies towards St. Contest to either take the town or bottle up the German forces there. I'm also reinforcing Cambe En Plaine the infantry and guns from Les Buisson.








That's it so far... the AI take forever to do its moves so hopefully I'll be around turn 10 by friday  Smiley
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Cara Mia
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« Reply #16 on: 13 July 2009, 09:29:26 »
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Looking very good (have yet to try one of your scenarios, though - a fact I'll soon remedy!), but do I actually spot you using my CMAK SS Mechanized mod there? Grijns
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Koen
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« Reply #17 on: 10 September 2009, 19:44:06 »
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this is the latest updated file: 12SS maxi 1

OOB's have been modified after the 1st tests
general briefing has been added
minor changes of the map have been made

* Koen-12SS maxi 1.cmg (133.13 KB - downloaded 403 times.)
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